Rant!!! okay, not really, but long post.

okay, its not really TOP vs. common sense, but would appear so.

after reviewing my last sample of 25nl hands, in which Im nutpeddling to build a low br, I have discovered one thing: I win most hands that I play in with high suited broadway, high PP, etc. with a pot sized c-bet.

my problem is that Im sure I could be extracting more than I am, but it seems like every damn flop I get in, there's a threat. This isnt helped by the fact that every hand I play with, I wanna raise, and in most places isolate; but I cant get anyone to call anything above 3x-5x bb. I dont know if I will just have to be satisfied with getting what comes pf, or if I just value bet and take it where it comes.

which of those plays turns out +ev?

this is kind of a rant, kind of a post made in hopes it will spark a discussion, at least an answer.

hell, I'd be happy to get flamed!



not really

[fuzzbox]

Start doing it with nothing as well, then you will make money with nothing.

I am doing it with nothing. I will call with damn near any two if P.O. dictate.

so is that where the ground is made up on the lost earlier bets?

thanks fuzzy

[DoomSlice]

Many people WILL realize that you've played pretty tightly the whole time. So steal some pots every so often and you'll be fine.

[Arbogast]

Do a search for "shania". It's an old thread, but I think it relates directly to what you are trying to achieve.

[phillydilly]

well, i guess my first answer is to lower the amount of your continuation bet. I'd say 2/3-3/4 size the pot.
I'm just starting to do this after reading Harrington on Holdem Vol 1. Its not something i'm real comfortable with, as, like yourself, I like the pot sized bet.

But the basic idea of poker is you make money when your opponent makes mistakes. SO you want them to call with flush draw, oesd etc. and a 2/3 3/4 pot size bet should get another call or two, while still giving incorrect odds

[rikz]

[ QUOTE ]
I am doing it with nothing. I will call with damn near any two if P.O. dictate.


[/ QUOTE ]

At a tight on-line table like the ones you describe, I think you should raise (not "call") more, especially in late position, even with mid- or low- pocket pairs, and mid-sized suited connectors, or even semi-connectors. Then continuation bet on the flop, provided the texture isn't something like 9TJ and you hold 45s (in which case SOMEBODY hit something, like AJ, 9T, TJ, 88 for oesd, etc...). If the table is super tight, then you will win a lot of small pots with nothing (or very little, like 2nd pair and a back door flush draw). You will occaisionally lose a medium sized pot. And every once in a while you will flop a well-disguised monster that will stack somebody's set when you flop a mid-sized straight. This doesn't work well at a loose passive table, but at a tight on line table, it's better than only continuation betting premium hands and winning only a few small pots, and losing bigger ones when your QQ runs into a set.

Position is the most important thing when doing this. Eventually, you will either win more small pots, or get more action that will allow you to tighten up some and get a little more value for bigger hands.