intelligence at the table

[lotus776]

I'm an avid reader of poker literature. Especially Harrington on Hold'em both volumes. There are a lot of excellent examples and advice in both books, however it doesn't seem like my opponents are intelligent enough for me to be able to work these plays. I find that I play pretty tightly on single-table tournaments in the beginning because usually the table is extremely loose and raising does little to push anoyone out. I gradually loosen up but am forced to succumb to some idiot who won the 4-way all-in pot at the beginning of the tourney and whose stack is enormous, this is a pretty common situation. My conservative anti-table play is thwarted by idiot draws with imporbable pot odds. But, I'm not passing the blame entirely. My knowledge of the cards is awesome, I know the plays, the stats, the tnedencies and how to read to pretty well, but it seems like I have very little control. My game is very conservative given the looseness of my envirnment. These are $20+2 single table tourneys that are tearing me apart. I need some strategy that is directed toward this type of situation. It makes little sense to post individual hands because this general scenario occurs VERY often. SOLUTION please!

[pergesu]

Don't try the plays you read in HOH2. Play boring ABC poker and you will beat the games, assuming you're at the low limits with thoughtless opponents, as I assumed from your post.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't try the plays you read in HOH2. Play boring ABC poker and you will beat the games, assuming you're at the low limits with thoughtless opponents, as I assumed from your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget that "boring ABC poker" for sit and gos mean that you should be pushing with trash late in the tournament sometimes.

[pergesu]

Yeah that's fun for like three days. Push with 75o and your heart rate spikes, you're shouting "don't call, don't call!" But you quickly adjust, and eventually you need to push trash just to make it through the day. I guess that's what moving up in limits is for.

[RikaKazak]

ummmmm, pushing 5,7o SB vs. BB, folded to you when it's like 4-6 times BB is stack, that's standard for everyone else??? or just me????

[pergesu]

That's what I'm saying. It's exciting the first couple times cause you can't believe you're pushing trash, but it quickly becomes standard and..boring.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
ummmmm, pushing 5,7o SB vs. BB, folded to you when it's like 4-6 times BB is stack, that's standard for everyone else??? or just me????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup for anything under 5 if you're strict HoH2 on inflection points (you should be). Believe it or not, 57off is only a real underdog to bigger pairs. Even against AKs, it's still a winner 35% of the time. Against say A4off, it's 41% etc etc.

[zambonidrivr]

yeah winning $ sucks

[eastbay]

This appears to be a wordy variation on the old "you can't beat these idiots who call and suckout all the time" post.

eastbay

[runner4life7]

Couldnt agree more. If you know all your "stats" and stuff that you claim to do, the 20s should be a breeze. I don't consider myself a great SNGer by any means, but the 20s I have found to be fairly easy.

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
...but it seems like I have very little control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of a famous Einstein quote, "God does not play dice." Well, turns out he was wrong on account of a little thing called the Uncertainty Principle. Somehow SNGs remind me of that. Embrace uncertainty, don't fight it. Sh-t happens, deal with it.

And trying to play "Level 3" poker against Level 1 and Level 2 players often results in the "higher level playing player" actually getting outplayed (largely by himself). If the run defense sucks, keep running the ball. Don't pull a Brian Billick 1999 NFC Championship FP(C)S with fancy lateral pitches to David Palmer when Robert Smith is going for 6-7 yards every time.

[microbet]

How many tournaments have you played?

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah winning $ sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe agreed. I find making +EV plays quite exciting still.

[tjh]

[ QUOTE ]
If you know all your "stats" and stuff that you claim to do, the 20s should be a breeze. I don't consider myself a great SNGer by any means, but the 20s I have found to be fairly easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 20s are easy once you figure them out. Are they hard to figure out? Not really but some ring game or MTT or perhaps limit strategy can prevent you from figuring things out right away. For me I played to tight for party, MTT habit? I could beat UB SNGs though. Twice as many chips, slow blind structure. Once I got some basic SNG strategy figured out I moved back to party and all has been well.

If you think posting hands wont help then post your basic strategy and we can discuss general strategy. In my opinion this could be a helpful discussion. Basically though you will find that posting hands along with reads, levels and what you were thinking can lead to an adjustment in your basic strategy.

Basic strategy is.

Tight early (they are way to loose) Big cards and pairs for set value.

Aggressive late (they get way too tight) Level 5 or so on party when the blinds are worth stealing.

Be the aggressor, fold to aggression from others, unless you have a solid read.

Also I tended to be overaggressive, You just need to be aggressive enough to make a little on average every orbit. The blinds along with random circumstance will tend to take out the other players until you find yourself in the money. So I had to calm down a bit on the bubble.

Good luck.

--
tjh

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...but it seems like I have very little control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of a famous Einstein quote, "God does not play dice." Well, turns out he was wrong on account of a little thing called the Uncertainty Principle. Somehow SNGs remind me of that. Embrace uncertainty, don't fight it. Sh-t happens, deal with it.

And trying to play "Level 3" poker against Level 1 and Level 2 players often results in the "higher level playing player" actually getting outplayed (largely by himself). If the run defense sucks, keep running the ball. Don't pull a Brian Billick 1999 NFC Championship FP(C)S with fancy lateral pitches to David Palmer when Robert Smith is going for 6-7 yards every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post/analogy

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]


The 20s are easy once you figure them out. Are they hard to figure out? Not really but some ring game or MTT or perhaps limit strategy can prevent you from figuring things out right away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post! I hate the general sentiment of "OH MY GOD THE $33s AND BELOW ARE FREE MONEY AND IF YOU'RE NOT KILLING THEM YOU'RE A MENTAL RETARD BECAUSE I HAVE A MENTALLY RETARDED FRIEND WHO BEATS THE $33s FOR 20% ROI LOL"

The $22s seem easy as cake to me now. I had leaks before that made them seem incredibly difficult. I've worked very hard to plug my leaks and develop my poker skills and I feel like I've got some hard-won skill and experience in the Party 800-chip SNGs, but when I move up you won't hear me blabbing about how simple it is to beat the $22s, etc. Winning at poker is hard work.

[Manque]

The short short strategy for $22 is, early on, hope to get paid off with sets, overpairs, tptk etc... later on steal blinds and punish limpers by having enough folding equity to push.

[pokerbo]

HoH2 ? What does this mean plz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[xJMPx]

[ QUOTE ]
HoH2 ? What does this mean plz /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

HOH2 = Harrington on Hold'em, Volume II.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...but it seems like I have very little control.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of a famous Einstein quote, "God does not play dice." Well, turns out he was wrong on account of a little thing called the Uncertainty Principle. Somehow SNGs remind me of that. Embrace uncertainty, don't fight it. Sh-t happens, deal with it.

And trying to play "Level 3" poker against Level 1 and Level 2 players often results in the "higher level playing player" actually getting outplayed (largely by himself). If the run defense sucks, keep running the ball. Don't pull a Brian Billick 1999 NFC Championship FP(C)S with fancy lateral pitches to David Palmer when Robert Smith is going for 6-7 yards every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

gawd somebody had to bring that game up........
Thanks for opening up an old wound again.

[Back In Black]

I'm not sure why this ever got unstickied:

STT FAQ v.3 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)