problems with landlord..sort of..

[quinn]

Here's the story:

My gf was trying to rent out a boat to live on for the school year. She found one and made a verbal agreement (I think, maybe there was a contract) to rent it out for the year. When she got into town to move into the boat, it was in terrible condition. Among other things, there was no hot water or working toilet.. So she and her dad worked on the boat trying to fix it up for a few days (they obviously had no obligation to do this). Then she just decided to go get an apartment. Too bad she had already paid a $200 damage deposit. Her dad called up the landlady and asked for the damage deposit back. She just made up some bullshit about how it wasn't really a damage deposit. Her dad threatened to take them to court, and she hung up on him. He called back later, and she hung up again.

What's the right move? If they go to court, can they get more than $200? How likely is it that they'll get the $200 back?

[phage]

Is you time worth $200...Just seems like an expensive lesson to me.

[quinn]

[ QUOTE ]
Is you time worth $200...Just seems like an expensive lesson to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not mine, but she makes $9/hour.

[Leo99]

Who would rent an apartment without looking at it first?

[bwana devil]

she broke a lease. the landlord could sue your girlfriend. i would drop it.

[handsome]

I guess the landlady is technically a "sealady." Get it get it??

[PoBoy321]

She could take the landlady to small claims mediation where someone will either help them resolve the problem on their own or refer them to a judge who will basically tell the landlady whether or not she can keep the deposit (it probably depends on the terms of the lease). If the $200 is that big of an issue, I'd look into it.

Most landlord's won't do [censored] for you 'til they hear from a lawyer. My girlfriend had a similar problem earlier this year. They told her Dad too bad we're not doing anything about the various problems with the apt. The day after they heard from a lawyer someone came over and fixed what was wrong.

It's hard to tell if your gf is even in the right here, but if she is a lawyer is the only way she'll ever get her money back.

[ddollevoet]

Do what you want, court, etc.

She did break the lease. I'd bet that she is upside down more than the $200 in the eyes of the law.

[Jimbo]

I can't believe either you, she or her father could possobly think she deserves the $200 back. It is a sign of growing up to take responsiblilty for your own decisions. 200 bucks is a pretty small price to pay for such a useful life lesson.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
She could take the landlady to small claims mediation where someone will either help them resolve the problem on their own or refer them to a judge who will basically tell the landlady whether or not she can keep the deposit (it probably depends on the terms of the lease). If the $200 is that big of an issue, I'd look into it.

[/ QUOTE ]

in texas if the gf tried to sue, the landlord could counter sue and theortically get the amount of the entire lease due to her.

so if the rent is $600 and it is a 12 month lease she broke the gf would not only lose her $200 but she could owe the landlord an extra $7200.

im a landlord and know my texas laws pretty well. those are pretty basic too and bet they dont differ from state to state.

bwana

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She could take the landlady to small claims mediation where someone will either help them resolve the problem on their own or refer them to a judge who will basically tell the landlady whether or not she can keep the deposit (it probably depends on the terms of the lease). If the $200 is that big of an issue, I'd look into it.

[/ QUOTE ]

in texas if the gf tried to sue, the landlord could counter sue and theortically get the amount of the entire lease due to her.

so if the rent is $600 and it is a 12 month lease she broke the gf would not only lose her $200 but she could owe the landlord an extra $7200.

im a landlord and know my texas laws pretty well. those are pretty basic too and bet they dont differ from state to state.

bwana

[/ QUOTE ]

It would depend on whether there was an actual signed lease. The OP wasn't sure if there was a contract or not. It might have all been verbal.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]

It would depend on whether there was an actual signed lease. The OP wasn't sure if there was a contract or not. It might have all been verbal.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, in texas even verbal contracts are binding leases. they are a bit stickier for obvious reasons but both parties can be held liable to the terms.

bwana

[Leo99]

Doesn't matter about the lease signed. The girl assumed a certain level of accomadation that the boat didn't meet. She agreed to pay X dollars a month for accomadation Y. Y was full of suck. The girl didn't enter into the contract with full disclosure. Y sounds uninhabitable.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She could take the landlady to small claims mediation where someone will either help them resolve the problem on their own or refer them to a judge who will basically tell the landlady whether or not she can keep the deposit (it probably depends on the terms of the lease). If the $200 is that big of an issue, I'd look into it.

[/ QUOTE ]

in texas if the gf tried to sue, the landlord could counter sue and theortically get the amount of the entire lease due to her.

so if the rent is $600 and it is a 12 month lease she broke the gf would not only lose her $200 but she could owe the landlord an extra $7200.

im a landlord and know my texas laws pretty well. those are pretty basic too and bet they dont differ from state to state.

bwana

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah but is it legal to rent out a residence without a functioning toilet? I think there are safety and health codes that landlords must obey.

[Jimbo]

Under URLTA (http://www.law.upenn.edu/bll/ulc/fnact99/1970s/urlta72.htm)

(a) If contrary to the rental agreement or Section 2.104 the landlord willfully or negligently fails to supply heat, running water, hot water, electric, gas, or other essential service, the tenant may give written notice to the landlord specifying the breach and may




(1) take reasonable and appropriate measures to secure reasonable amounts of heat, hot water, running water, electric, gas, and other essential service during the period of the landlord's noncompliance and deduct their actual and reasonable cost from the rent; or




(2) recover damages based upon the diminution in the fair rental value of the dwelling unit; or




(3) procure reasonable substitute housing during the period of the landlord's noncompliance, in which case the tenant is excused from paying rent for the period of the landlord's noncompliance.




(b) In addition to the remedy provided in paragraph (3) of subsection (a) the tenant may recover the actual and reasonable cost or fair and reasonable value of the substitute housing not in excess of an amount equal to the periodic rent, and in any case under subsection (a) reasonable attorney's fees.




(c) If the tenant proceeds under this section, he may not proceed under Section 4.101 or Section 4.103 as to that breach.




(d) Rights of the tenant under this section do not arise until he has given notice to the landlord or if the condition was caused by the deliberate or negligent act or omission of the tenant, a member of his family, or other person on the premises with his consent.

So basically the Lanlord is required to make the property habitable after proper notice and within a reasonable timeframe. Note that Lanlords failure to comply will not necessarily void the entire lease agreement.

[bobman0330]

This is not any sort of legal advice. Get a lawyer or research Texas law yourself. link: (http://www.texastenant.org/topics/deposit/depositstatutes.html)
§ 92.101. Application

This subchapter applies to all residential leases.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3639, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 744, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

§ 92.102. Security Deposit

A security deposit is any advance of money, other than a rental application deposit or an advance payment of rent, that is intended primarily to secure performance under a lease of a dwelling that has been entered into by a landlord and a tenant.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3639, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 744, § 2, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

§ 92.103. Obligation to Refund

(a) Except as provided by Section 92.107, the landlord shall refund a security deposit to the tenant on or before the 30th day after the date the tenant surrenders the premises.

(b) A requirement that a tenant give advance notice of surrender as a condition for refunding the security deposit is effective only if the requirement is underlined or is printed in conspicuous bold print in the lease.

(c) The tenant's claim to the security deposit takes priority over the claim of any creditor of the landlord, including a trustee in bankruptcy.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3639, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 744, § 3, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

§ 92.1031. Conditions for Retention of Security Deposit or Rent Prepayment

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a landlord who receives a security deposit or rent prepayment for a dwelling from a tenant who fails to occupy the dwelling according to a lease between the landlord and the tenant may not retain the security deposit or rent prepayment if:

(1) the tenant secures a replacement tenant satisfactory to the landlord and the replacement tenant occupies the dwelling on or before the commencement date of the lease; or

(2) the landlord secures a replacement tenant satisfactory to the landlord and the replacement tenant occupies the dwelling on or before the commencement date of the lease.

(b) If the landlord secures the replacement tenant, the landlord may retain and deduct from the security deposit or rent prepayment either:

(1) a sum agreed to in the lease as a lease cancellation fee; or

(2) actual expenses incurred by the landlord in securing the replacement, including a reasonable amount for the time of the landlord in securing the replacement tenant.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 869, § 13, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

§ 92.104. Retention of Security Deposit; Accounting

(a) Before returning a security deposit, the landlord may deduct from the deposit damages and charges for which the tenant is legally liable under the lease or as a result of breaching the lease.

(b) The landlord may not retain any portion of a security deposit to cover normal wear and tear.

(c) If the landlord retains all or part of a security deposit under this section, the landlord shall give to the tenant the balance of the security deposit, if any, together with a written description and itemized list of all deductions. The landlord is not required to give the tenant a description and itemized list of deductions if:

(1) the tenant owes rent when he surrenders possession of the premises; and

(2) there is no controversy concerning the amount of rent owed.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3640, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.

§ 92.1041. Presumption of Refund or Accounting

A landlord is presumed to have refunded a security deposit or made an accounting of security deposit deductions if, on or before the date required under this subchapter, the refund or accounting is placed in the United States mail and postmarked on or before the required date.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 744, § 4, eff. Jan. 1, 1996.

§ 92.105. Cessation of Owner's Interest

(a) If the owner's interest in the premises is terminated by sale, assignment, death, appointment of a receiver, bankruptcy, or otherwise, the new owner is liable for the return of security deposits according to this subchapter from the date title to the premises is acquired, regardless of whether notice is given to the tenant under Subsection (b) of this section.

(b) The person who no longer owns an interest in the rental premises remains liable for a security deposit received while the person was the owner until the new owner delivers to the tenant a signed statement acknowledging that the new owner has received and is responsible for the tenant's security deposit and specifying the exact dollar amount of the deposit.

(c) Subsection (a) does not apply to a real estate mortgage lienholder who acquires title by foreclosure.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3640, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984. Amended by Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 305, § 2, eff. Aug. 26, 1985.

§ 92.106. Records

The landlord shall keep accurate records of all security deposits.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3641, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.

§ 92.107. Tenant's Forwarding Address

(a) The landlord is not obligated to return a tenant's security deposit or give the tenant a written description of damages and charges until the tenant gives the landlord a written statement of the tenant's forwarding address for the purpose of refunding the security deposit.

(b) The tenant does not forfeit the right to a refund of the security deposit or the right to receive a description of damages and charges merely for failing to give a forwarding address to the landlord.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3641, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.

§ 92.108. Liability for Withholding Last Month's Rent

(a) The tenant may not withhold payment of any portion of the last month's rent on grounds that the security deposit is security for unpaid rent.

(b) A tenant who violates this section is presumed to have acted in bad faith. A tenant who in bad faith violates this section is liable to the landlord for an amount equal to three times the rent wrongfully withheld and the landlord's reasonable attorney's fees in a suit to recover the rent.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3641, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.

§ 92.109. Liability of Landlord

(a) A landlord who in bad faith retains a security deposit in violation of this subchapter is liable for an amount equal to the sum of $100, three times the portion of the deposit wrongfully withheld, and the tenant's reasonable attorney's fees in a suit to recover the deposit.

(b) A landlord who in bad faith does not provide a written description and itemized list of damages and charges in violation of this subchapter:

(1) forfeits the right to withhold any portion of the security deposit or to bring suit against the tenant for damages to the premises; and

(2) is liable for the tenant's reasonable attorney's fees in a suit to recover the deposit.

(c) In an action brought by a tenant under this subchapter, the landlord has the burden of proving that the retention of any portion of the security deposit was reasonable.

(d) A landlord who fails either to return a security deposit or to provide a written description and itemization of deductions on or before the 30th day after the date the tenant surrenders possession is presumed to have acted in bad faith.

Acts 1983, 68th Leg., p. 3641, ch. 576, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1984.


-What you might consider doing is arguing that because of the condition of the boat, your gf was essentially evicted. In some states, there is a doctrine known as constructive eviction which covers situations like this. See what Texas law has to say on the subject (check out a local law library and ask for help finding law on the subject.) In that case, you might be able to make a claim under this statute for 3x the deposit.
-If the landlady made any representations about the condition of the boat, you might also look into some kind of fraud claim.
-I'm not convinced about the validity of the lease if it wasn't written. In a lot of states, both leases and contracts for more than one year (assuming the lease term started after the conclusion of the agreement, this would be one of those) need to be written down to be enforceable. Check it out. IF that's the case, you probably don't have to worry about a counterclaim for breach of the lease.

[FatOtt]

[ QUOTE ]
My gf was trying to rent out a boat to live on for the school year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why isn't this getting more attention? Dorm vs. apartment is a raging battle, but renting out a boat is totally standard? WTF?

[michiganlaw]

OK, how about some real legal advice from a lawyer...

It obviously depends upon the jurisdiction (i.e. which state this is in), but in most states leases for less than one year do not have to be in writing.

Implied into every lease (oral or otherwise) is the implied warranty of habitability. If, as the OP suggests, the boat was truly uninhabitable and did not meet minimum subsistence requirements then the girlfriend has a legitimate reason to not pay rent.

HOWEVER, HERE IS THE CATCH....she can't simply stop paying rent because the conditions suck!!!! She has to continue paying the monthly rental obligation INTO ESCROW (into a bank account specifically earmarked for this purpose). Then when the sealady sues to recover rent, you have a complete defense.

You've been paying rent the whole time, but you shouldn't have to pay rent, so the court will likely declare the place uninhabitable and give the escrow money back.

Look, this isn't the WILD,WILD WEST anymore. You can't just stop paying rent because your landlord fails to make necessary repairs. You can't take vigilante justice into your own hands. You have to work within the confines of the legal system.

Pay rent to escrow, sue sealady for breach of implied warranty of habitability, which nullifies the lease and girlfriend gets her money back that's in escrow with no further legal liability under the lease.

Sincerely,

Perry Mason /images/graemlins/smile.gif