10/20: blind defense round 5, part 4 - A8s

[Surfbullet]

Villain is 50/24/1.6 over 233 hands
UTG is 60/4/.8 over 325 hands
hooray table selection!

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP calls.

Turn: (6 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (8 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

[bank]

I c/f the flop here against an unknown MP.

[yanicehand]

[ QUOTE ]
I c/f the flop here against an unknown MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I do, and I really don't force much in these blind defense situations. I notice a lot of times in blind battles people seem to do a lot of betting and c/ring with ace high in these situations, and the little that I experimented with this ended horribly. Am I missing alot of value here?

[New001]

I think MP has you beat on the flop a large percent of the time, and you often won't push him off a better Ace or any pair here.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
I think MP has you beat on the flop a large percent of the time, and you often won't push him off a better Ace or any pair here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn didn't put 3 Qs on the board, I think we could push him off a better A by the turn.

I think a certain kind of player might let go of the A on the turn (assuming the 3rd Q doesnt land), but I dont think the average 10/20er would.

A pair probably will not fold.

Maybe a raise would be good to sort of protect the best hand (getting rid of the third player), but then MP would need to have something like KJ,KT, which is only a small percentage of his range. Plus he might not even raise KTs preflop.

I guess I don't see what a raise can accomplish here. I don't really like a call either, since its unclear what our outs are. And even if we do hit a good card (A or 8), we are OOP, which sort of creates an ugly reverse implied odds situation.

So I fold the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I c/f the flop here against an unknown MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain isn't unknown. (50/24/1.6 over 233 hands)

I like the isolation raise on the flop (and the fact that it worked). There are PLENTY of villain holdings that could be losing to A8.

Turn bet....sure, why not.
River check....yep.
River call.....yep.

50/24/1.6 over 233 hands

i missed this. yea i like your play more with that read.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think MP has you beat on the flop a large percent of the time, and you often won't push him off a better Ace or any pair here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn didn't put 3 Qs on the board, I think we could push him off a better A by the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is going to the river w/ any ace.

To OP...I think u are posting some nice situations. I like.

[Surfbullet]

So on the flop I'm left with a mediocre A-hi, facing an autobet from a 24% raiser who iso-raised a 60% limper. Their hand ranges are huuuuuuge here, and I'm going to have the best hand quite a good bit of the time on this flop.

However, does the pot size dictate an attempt at protecting my hand? Would I be able to fold A9-AJ on the turn if that is MPs holding?

UTG is a moron, but not completely oblivious. If he calls 2 cold he's got a better hand, and I'm done with it. If MP 3bets me he's got a better hand,and I'm done with it. I'm still unsure about this play - it made sense at the time but I wanted to see if my reasoning worked.

Thoughts?

Surf

[Grisgra]

I don't know what you're ahead of on the river that raised on the flop, and called your flop and turn bet. KJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif? A worse ace (which wouldn't bet the river here)?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what you're ahead of on the river that raised on the flop, and called your flop and turn bet. KJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif? A worse ace (which wouldn't bet the river here)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ten high might bet the river here. I think you're confusing a 50/24/1.6 with a rational, thinking player.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what you're ahead of on the river that raised on the flop, and called your flop and turn bet. KJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif? A worse ace (which wouldn't bet the river here)?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a big concern of mine. I didn't think there was much(any?) value in a river bet, but I've made this big pot for myself and i've got a showdownable hand(given the board) so I'm hoping to snap off a bluff from K-high or less. 1 in 9? not sure.

Surf