10/20: blind defense round 5, part 3 - QTo

[Surfbullet]

Villain is 56/42/5 over 89 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 2.75 BB

This hand left me feeling icky. I didn't want to take Q-hi to showdown. I also knew this opponent wasn't going to just give up because I called the flop. I also am not confident in making him fold a better hand.

Surf

[Victor]

how do you play if you flop a pair or a draw? do you think you make enough to offset the pf call and flop fold?

[bank]

This is fine.

[Catt]

Tough hand. Sometimes I just call down, even with Q-high. Sometimes I fold the flop.

[yanicehand]

I've grown accustomed to folding a good portion of the time in these situations.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you play if you flop a pair or a draw? do you think you make enough to offset the pf call and flop fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I know what you mean, but I'm sure you realize that the flop fold is zero EV. I make sure plenty of bets go in against this guy when I have a pair and I play like a passive little bitch when I have a draw. With stats like that I figure he is quite willing to raise and reraise regardless of his cards and that is not my idea of a good time when I don't have a pair. I think the implied odds against a guy like this are tremendous and it is perfectly affordable to defend liberally and then fold liberally until you have showdown value and then PUNISH him.

Cartman

[oreogod]

Im not folding here. U have a super aggressive player raising preflop and u have Overs and a backdoor str8. If he wasnt insane postflop, Id CR. But since he is I think this is a call. If u hit a T or a Q u are getting paid off big.

The game is 4 handed. Ur hand is unlikely to be dominated. You have overs to the board w/ a Bd str8 against a super agro. = call, at least.

[kiddo]

Domination is not likely and implied odds are great. Checkcall flop. Fold turn if it isnt Q, J, T or 9.

[mikeyKay]

i think you give up too much by folding this flop. peel a card, and fold if it misses you.

-mike

Nothing too wrong with folding. Nothing wrong with peeling one on the flop either though, especially against a player who's likely to give you action with a worse hand if you hit. Really just depends on whether you feel frisky at the time. I bet it's about even EV either way.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Domination is not likely and implied odds are great. Checkcall flop. Fold turn if it isnt Q, J, T or 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey kiddo,

a J or 9 only gives me a gutshot. I need 6.8:1 to hit a pair and I'm only getting 5.5:1. Are implied odds sufficient to make this up? Also, if we call the turn w/ overs + a gutshot we are getting 4.25:1 to call and hit a 7-10 outer? I feel like we give up alot by folding when we miss because of insufficient pot odds.

Surf

[MarkD]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing too wrong with folding. Nothing wrong with peeling one on the flop either though, especially against a player who's likely to give you action with a worse hand if you hit. Really just depends on whether you feel frisky at the time. I bet it's about even EV either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sums up my thoughts perfectly.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
I need 6.8:1 to hit a pair and I'm only getting 5.5:1. Are implied odds sufficient to make this up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Easily. Think about this way: What will happen if I hit pair on turn? 1) You will almost always be ahead. 2) He will almost never fold. 3) You will probably get 2BB out of him.

[ QUOTE ]
a J or 9 only gives me a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, its marginal to call turn (pretty EVneutral I would guess), but against a player this aggressive, raising 42% preflop - I think u should call with 10 outs for straight or toppair on turn.

If u hit u will often get one more BB out of him. Also there are some chance - I guess - he will check behind on river with worse hand (I dont know this of course, maybe there isnt).

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]
What will happen if I hit pair on turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I correct to assume that you guys would checkraise if the turn brings a Q or a T. What about against a 15% preflop raiser. I often donk the turn or call the turn and donk the river.

Is this too weak?

Thanks,
Cartman

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What will happen if I hit pair on turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I correct to assume that you guys would checkraise if the turn brings a Q or a T. What about against a 15% preflop raiser. I often donk the turn or call the turn and donk the river.

Is this too weak?

Thanks,
Cartman

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Playing a strong 1pair hand passively HU in a tiny pot against an aggressive player can be quite a good move. A thinking LAG will bet far more hands than he will call with, unpaired junk which is trying to get you off of K- or A-hi. Raising only stops his bluffing sooner...there are only a few made hands that will call a raise if he's reasonable.

This breed of LAG i'm up against goes to SD with everything showdownable, so I would want to c/r and get K- and A- hi calldowns.

Surf