Sick of getting raised on the turn

[jskills]

Villan in UTG is 26/8/2.36 over 80 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (2.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ?

[newhizzle]

dude is pretty aggressive, so im not folding, but i dont like my kicker and i want to give him a chance to bluff at the river, so i call down

edit: looking back on it i dont think your kicker is an issue here, call down to let him bluff the river

[Shillx]

Call unless you have some odd read that he would do this with a draw. All you have to decide is if you should raise the river or not. 3-betting the turn will only cause him to fold those hands that he is getting out of line with. Give him another shot to bluff at the pot.

Brad

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Villan in UTG is 26/8/2.36 over 80 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (2.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That person is not extremely loose preflop. Hands that he might limp UTG:
KQo
KQs
MPPs such as 77
JTs
A9s

I suspect that we are behind here, but Villain is aggressive and may well be executing a delayed flush draw raise. Call down expecting to lose.

[TheHammer24]

I don't think we are behind as much as you would think. Villian with stats like these are definitely making this play with a hand like QJ. 8 pfr can rule out AQ, unless he has some phobia of raising UTG. I think you have the best hand enough here, but calling down is correct here.

[JacksonTens]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is aggressive and may well be executing a delayed flush draw raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...love this line. Never heard this before!

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is aggressive and may well be executing a delayed flush draw raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...love this line. Never heard this before!

JT /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never heard of waiting for the turn to raise a flush draw? There's been several threads about it here lately....

It's not likely, but it is possible...Villain may have a flush draw or something like a queen.

[jskills]

Thanks for the replies.

So I called the raise and also another bet on the river. Villan showed down A3 offsuit. WTF? With stats like that over 88 hands, I was very surprised to see a UTG limp with A3o. My biggest problem was that I did not raise at some point, but I guess calling down makes the most money in this situation anyway.

This same villan check raised me on the turn later on in another hand. Of course I called down and again he had nothing.

The majority of the time I'm raised on the turn, I'm beat. So this kind of thing is disturbing. It shows how important reads are and evaluating each situation independantly.

[Aces McGee]

I raise preflop.

I don't know why you're sick of being raised on the turn. Generally, when I'm holding boss trips in this situation, I welcome a raise.

This guy is way too aggressive for you to be behind very often. The only debate, in my opinion, is whether you should raise the turn, or wait until the river to pop it then. He's aggressive enough that I think he'll bet again, so I flatcall the turn and raise the river. He'll pay you off with any queen, and that's a much more likely holding than the case king. Even if he has the king, you've got a decent shot of having him outkicked.

-McGee

[jskills]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise preflop.

I don't know why you're sick of being raised on the turn. Generally, when I'm holding boss trips in this situation, I welcome a raise.

This guy is way too aggressive for you to be behind very often. The only debate, in my opinion, is whether you should raise the turn, or wait until the river to pop it then. He's aggressive enough that I think he'll bet again, so I flatcall the turn and raise the river. He'll pay you off with any queen, and that's a much more likely holding than the case king. Even if he has the king, you've got a decent shot of having him outkicked.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure after seeing his hand I'd wished I'd raised somewhere in the hand, especially the river.

But think about this first. What range of hands do you put someone on with a 26.15 VPIP who limps UTG? KJ and KQ immediatelly come to mind don't they? When I got raised on the turn, my T kicker just felt weak. The majority of time you are raised on the turn, it means bad news does it not?

But your line is actually the best - popping the rvier would have been sweet. I wish I had the balls for it at the time.

Thx.

[Aces McGee]

Sure, KQ and KJ are possible holdings, although I'm getting pretty used to seeing those raised in EP. But they are just a few holdings he could have, and they have got to be greatly discounted because there's only one king left in the deck. QJ and QT are much more likely in my mind, as are medium pocket pairs (of those, only 77 beats us). If he's at all observant, he's probably noticed that you bet more often than you check when it's checked to you in position in a shorthanded pot. He therefore could have decided to semibluff the turn with hearts or JT or even a gutshot with overcard (AJo/ATo, though he might raise those preflop).

He's just too aggressive for him to be beating you very often here. Against a more passive player, you can worry about the turn raise, but not against this guy.

-McGee

[Dagger78]

26.15 VPIP and he's limping ALOT worse than KJ utg.

expect to see JT,QJ,K9s etc. in this position

[madscout]

[ QUOTE ]
But think about this first. What range of hands do you put someone on with a 26.15 VPIP who limps UTG?

[/ QUOTE ]

This could be a sample size issue, FWIW.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]

So I called the raise and also another bet on the river. Villan showed down A3 offsuit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good grief. WTF is right!!!

I've been folding to a good percentage of checkraises from 26% or so VPIP folks. This post may well make me loosen up my standards for calling down or reraising.