QQ vs the AA8 board [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

winky51

09-18-2005, 10:29 PM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em
Converted w/ PonksSaver: http://www.pokermentor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=510
- - - HAND 2735853708 - - -
PreFlop: HERO is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (10 Players)
3 folds, MP raises, HERO raises, 1 fold, CO is all-In, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, MP raises, HERO calls, SB calls,

Flop: (15.00 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 Players)
SB checks, MP bets, HERO calls, SB raises, MP raises, HERO folds, SB raises, MP calls,

Turn: (12.00 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
SB bets, MP raises, SB raises, MP raises, SB calls,

River: (20.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
SB bets, MP raises, SB raises, MP raises, SB calls,

Final Pot: 4.00 BB

Results below:
 MP has Ac Ks (three of a kind aces).
SB has 8h Ah (a full house Aces full of eights).
Outcome: SB wins 24.00 BB.
Outcome: SB wins 4.00 BB. 

SB was loose passive. MP1 was loose but a fair player capable of folding hands... until now.
This flop was interesting, 2 aces meant possibility of either of these guys holding an ace went down. I really thought either the reraiser had AKs, KK, or even JJ, doubted AA or QQ. I didnt think just tossing my QQ was the right move but I couldnt raise them either on the flop, it wouldnt gain me anything except a call down from KK. Also if MP1 has KK then raising the turn as a bluff was make more sense here. SB being a fish could have called with any ace. So a call was in order. I figured MP1 was thinking along similar lines. Also 13 small bets in the pot.

Was this a toss or was the call correct?

newhizzle

09-18-2005, 10:38 PM

this is another situation where you will probly get better answers if you do not include the results in your post, but i think the fold is find, when its 2 bets back to you and SB is passive, i dont think you are ahead here that often

DrewOnTilt

09-18-2005, 11:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em
Converted w/ PonksSaver: http://www.pokermentor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=510
- - - HAND 2735853708 - - -
PreFlop: HERO is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (10 Players)
3 folds, MP raises, HERO raises, 1 fold, CO is all-In, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, MP raises, HERO calls, SB calls,

Flop: (15.00 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 Players)
SB checks, MP bets, HERO calls, SB raises, MP raises, HERO folds, SB raises, MP calls,

Turn: (12.00 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 Players)
SB bets, MP raises, SB raises, MP raises, SB calls,

River: (20.00 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 Players)
SB bets, MP raises, SB raises, MP raises, SB calls,

Final Pot: 4.00 BB

Results below:
 MP has Ac Ks (three of a kind aces).
SB has 8h Ah (a full house Aces full of eights).
Outcome: SB wins 24.00 BB.
Outcome: SB wins 4.00 BB. 

SB was loose passive. MP1 was loose but a fair player capable of folding hands... until now.
This flop was interesting, 2 aces meant possibility of either of these guys holding an ace went down. I really thought either the reraiser had AKs, KK, or even JJ, doubted AA or QQ. I didnt think just tossing my QQ was the right move but I couldnt raise them either on the flop, it wouldnt gain me anything except a call down from KK. Also if MP1 has KK then raising the turn as a bluff was make more sense here. SB being a fish could have called with any ace. So a call was in order. I figured MP1 was thinking along similar lines. Also 13 small bets in the pot.

Was this a toss or was the call correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't post the results, as was already stated.

But I did not read the results prior to deciding on my line. This is a textbook fold. Sucks that you got outflopped, but what can you do? You're drawing at 2 outs at best.

Fold.

Next hand.

SlyGuy

09-19-2005, 12:21 AM

Why call the flop bet? What does calling the first bet accomplish? Raising or folding make sense to me.

If it's the right thing to do please enlighten me.

winky51

09-19-2005, 12:32 PM

reason is the CAPer will have only a few hands doing that preflop AA, KK, QQ, JJ.

With the flop having 2 aces it is less likely he holds AK and VERY unlikely he holds AA or QQ (since I got it) So to me its either KK or JJ. If he has KK and the way I would play the hand if I knew this is call the flop raise the turn to force him out. JJ I am winning. A raise here will only make him call down with KK or trap with AK.

Now the cold caller. Poor player can be calling with any pair or any ace. If the 1st player bets, I call, and he calls. Then I know where I stand especially if the 1st player bets the turn again.

If I raise here and the poor player behind cold calls that gives me no information on either.

Calling gave me the opportunity to find out where I am at without a raise. It also set up for a bluff raise on the turn if the back player folded and the CAPer had KK.

I 3 bet preflop representing a very strong hand. So if he did have KK he might just fold to a turn raise.

I think this was one of the rare instances where calling got you more information than raising.

If you had KK on this flop and had 2 callers would you bet the turn? Especially if the one behind you was a good player knowing he might be trapping both you and the fish with AK?

ErrantNight

09-19-2005, 12:38 PM

cap preflop. like, always.

09-19-2005, 12:43 PM

he did cap pf.

raising flop is better than folding , tho when its 2 back to you you need to junk it.

ErrantNight

09-19-2005, 12:58 PM

misread.

09-19-2005, 04:43 PM

I raise the flop and fold to the cap.