Critique please!

[rigoletto]

online 5/10

I openraise A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif , two loosey gooseys call behind.

FLOP: 2 T 8 (suits unimportant)

bet, raise, call, reraise, call, call.

TURN: 3

bet, call, call

RIVER: 9

check, bet, fold, call

[tewall]

I think you should bet the river. The rest seems straightforward.

[Lost Wages]

I think your play was good. If you lost to the gutshot or 2 pair, that's just the way it goes. The check call on the river was good because there are a lot of of weaker hands that will bet if checked to plus you avoid the raise if he hit.

Lost Wages

[Bob T.]

I would have bet the river. You are going to call one bet anyway, if you get raised, you can probably lay this one down.

[Louie Landale]

If both opponent's are assertive types I'd to call the flop raise and go for the turn check-raise. When in doubt, just flail away like you did.

With your pre-flop raise and flop 3-bet, it sure looks like you can beat a pair of Tens. It also sure looks like you are going to call a river bet. You have no particular reason to fear the 9. So I'd say the opponents are a LOT more likely to call a river bet then bet it themselves.

Well, wouldn't you feel a LOT better if you get called, then if you check and they bet? Yes? Well, that means they'd call more often then bet.

Bet it out.

- Louie

[Barry]

It's hard to say you didn't play it OK, but...

What can be made of the flop raise and turn call. It could be a draw such as J9 or 97 but, if the player is rational he wouldn't want to lose the player behind him. Would he raise a gutshot with overcards, not unless he's aggressive; so, you just might discount that he's on a draw. If he flopped a set of 8's, or even made 2 pair he would have either capped the flop or raised the turn.

I think that he has a weaker T or less likely J9, either way you're ahead and an argument can be made to value bet the river.

[SoBeDude]

In this situation, I'd rather check-call and see the showdown, than bet, get raised, and have to fold without seeing the showdown. If you see the showdown you have a greater chance of winning than you do by folding.

-Scott

[rigoletto]

Thanks for the replies fellas'

You all cut to the chase right away: Is this a time to value bet the river?

If it was heads up I would value bet into the flop raiser without hesitation, but I was afraid that the overcaller was drawing with hands like QJ, T9, 98 or 76 (what do you put him on?). On the other hand I don't think this particular caller would raise with less than the straight, so with 20/20 hindsight I believe Bob is right, bet out and fold to a raise.

Against unknown or tricky players I think it's close.

Anyway, flopraiser showed QTo !!! And I took down a nice pot /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[rigoletto]

Hi Barry

You analysis is right: the raiser is not likely to act this way with a draw. I also think your analysis is wrong since you don't take the overcaller into account at all.

[rigoletto]

Hi Louie

I think your analysis is spot on. But when you say:

You have no particular reason to fear the 9 I disagree. I was sure the overcaller was on a draw, so there are several hands he cold hold that beats my top pair (se other post). I think the question is: would he raise the river as a bluff against 2 agressive players and the answer is a very likely no. Betting is still correct because I would call a bet anyway as you (kind of) pointed out.

[tewall]

Why wouldn't he raise with a draw? There's only two opponents. If he can raise the flop and get rid of one, there's only one left (you). He might get rid of you on the turn. If that doesn't work, he might hit his draw.

This certainly seems to be a viable way of playing a draw.

[rigoletto]

I believe a play like that is only viable with a big draw, which pretty much narrows the possiblities down to J9. I think that a lot of other hands are much more likely candidates here. If there was a flush draw on the board I would tend to agree with you.