A Texas Hold 'Em game with two jokers in the deck

[mrh86]

This is a simple question based on odds, but I have no idea how to figure the answer out. Suppose you are playing in a no limit Texas Hold 'Em game with 54 cards. The only difference between a normal Hold 'Em game and this one is that the two jokers are left in the deck, and they're wild. Now suppose two people are playing this game heads-up. One is dealt:

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The other is dealt:

A joker and the 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif or 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

What is the percentage for the aces to hold up preflop?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

Probability forum buddy. Also I'm pretty sure the joker hand is a favorite.

It depends on how the jokers are used. Are they used the same way as in Jacks or Better Draw?

[UATrewqaz]

This is a complete guess but any hand with a joker is a favorite over any other hand I think, for this simple reason.

If the board comes with a pair, ANY pair, the joker hand has trips.
If the board comes 4 to a suit, ANY suit, the joker hand has an ace high flush.
If the opponent catches one of his non-joker card, he has two pair (because the joker automatically pairs with any other card ont he board).

These are just the immediate ways I see the joker making the hand dominant.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how the jokers are used. Are they used the same way as in Jacks or Better Draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm almost positive he meant completely wild.

[mrh86]

Yes, I meant that the jokers are completely wild. Sorry for posting this here.

a joker would be too powerful in holdem

[mrh86]

I'd think that jokers would have an even greater effect in omaha and on a player's board in stud.

[EnderIII]

two pair should never happen with a wild card...

[UATrewqaz]

Oh yeah my bad, he would have 3 of a kind at worst...

AA would be a huge underdog to Joker/X I believe.

[jogger08152]

Actually if he pairs his non-joker card, he would have trips, not two pair. Probably someone has pointed this out already.

[Guernica4000]

Wouldn't it be great to look at your hand and see pocket jokers? You would have the absolute nuts pre-flop. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Stu Pidasso]

You're going to have to construct a simulator to find your answer.

Stu

I wonder how well this game would work if:
1. You had the option of giving up one of your hole cards pre-flop.
and
2. The joker was only usable if you gave up the other card, or if it were on the board.

I can't tell you the %, but I'll take the joker for sure. I'm pretty sure it's a favorite even without a second card.

My head hurts too much if i try to do the math...pass me a red bull and ill try it in an hour or so...
I can tell you from playing a play money hold em game on yahoo that had 1 joker in the deck...if you had it you were raising and i dont recall losing with it ever.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell you the %, but I'll take the joker for sure. I'm pretty sure it's a favorite even without a second card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Joker is a roughly 60/40 favorite over pocket aces.

However, when you give up the card, your opponent *knows* that the best card you could have is a joker - so, most of the time, you'll have at best TP on the flop, and be drawing to a better hand. That means that, although you have strong pot equity if you stay in with the joker, you're still looking at relatively weak implied odds.

The reason that this variation is interesting to me is not so much because of the joker, but because players have the option of representing the joker. (Say by throwing the rag off of an ace.)

[J.A.Sucker]

The joker would destroy the aces. Think about how often you'd make a set...

Now think about how often you'd make a straight...

How about those sick boards that come down 4 to a flush or a straight. You'd have the nuts so often it's scary.

Who the hell plays with Jokers... wasted post...

Go back to home games.

[chuddo]

nice post, as i am always looking for stupid prop games and bets to gamble it up with my idiot friends.

i look forward to trying it out and seeing some numbers on this situation.

im pretty positive i can convince some friends to run through 20 or so hands with a bet on each of my 7-Joker vs their AA.

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell you the %, but I'll take the joker for sure. I'm pretty sure it's a favorite even without a second card.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did a quick, but crude, "simulation". Using a standard deck, giving one player A /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and the other Joker + 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, and cycling through the remaining 49 cards to create a total of 49 hands in which every other card appears 5 times on the board (so the distribution is roughly even and fair) the results are:

AA wins outright : 15 times.
Joker alone wins outright : 20 times.
Joker wins only if it has the 7 to back it up : 14 times.

Again, this is crude but it's accurate enough to demonstrate that the Joker needs a backup card to be the favourite over AA.

[Chris Callahan]

I didn't see that anyone did this so: Here's the result of my simulation:

The 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif-Joker has 76% equity against A/images/graemlins/heart.gifA/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

--- Chris Callahan