87s in SB...a place where I'd bet/fold the river!

[bozlax]

I've never understood the love on this board for a river bet/fold line. Here's a place where I think it's right.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (12 BB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>...

IMO, I will never bet/fold in a pot this big on Party .5/1 or 1/2. Yes he probably has a king, and probably you lose. But I think the random donk factor is way too big to ignore and 1/14 times he turns over a bluff or something totally retarded.

I usually check call this but that's probably wrong. I figure the value bets I miss are made up for having to only put in one bet when I'm behind, plus I figure he's more likely to bluff if I check.

[numeri]

Can you think of a range of hands that he'll call with? I certainly can't imagine anyone folding a better hand, and I'm wondering what will call here that we beat.

[aK13]

I hate bet/folding here w/o a read.

This river is asking A high to call.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate bet/folding here w/o a read.

This river is asking A high to call.

[/ QUOTE ]
What A-high bets the flop? And if you don't like bet/fold, do you bet/call then? Do you think someone will bluff a double-paired board when you've only shown aggression? Does another 8 play this the same way?

(Honest questions, by the way - not trying to sound argumentative.)

[bozlax]

I bet the river, and both players folded.

Incidentally, MP2 folded A8.

My read was that MP2 was weak-tight (I bet thinking he had an 8 or a king, and knew he'd fold the 8 and raise the king based on the way I'd played the hand), and that Button was LAGging it up. I don't know if this was normal behavior for the Button, but the guy to his right was a huge LAG, and the Button didn't seem to be able to adjust his play when his neighbor wasn't in the hand.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate bet/folding here w/o a read.

This river is asking A high to call.

[/ QUOTE ]
What A-high bets the flop? And if you don't like bet/fold, do you bet/call then? Do you think someone will bluff a double-paired board when you've only shown aggression? Does another 8 play this the same way?

(Honest questions, by the way - not trying to sound argumentative.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet/call against unknowns. MP2 could be betting a flush on the flop, or just a crap-position bet.