1/2 full ring

Hi,

My first post here so I will do a quick intro. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I am a student and have played around 20k hands at 0.5/1 and 1/2. I am a little loser but bonuses make me a tiny winner. Now over to the hand:

MP3 is 40VP$IP.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.00 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB.

[NateDog]

Welcome. What's your question? Should you be raising the flop? Depends on your read of SB. Should you call the river? Yes.

[Redd]

I wouldn't raise the flop here unless I was pretty sure I could get a free card. Then I'd take the free card against two people. The way it played out I also call the river raise.

[Russ McGinley]

I think you overplayed this hand. What is betting the turn going to accomplish? You need to check the turn and try and hit what is something around a 7-outer (3 nut queens, 1 probable nut queen, 6 overcards that are probably 50/50 to giving you the best hand). River call is pretty easy.

not sure what the question is here.....seems pretty basic to me, I think I'd have played it the same way. How did it turn out? MP3's check raise on the turn seems odd to me.

[Vote4Pedro]

Raising the flop is fine, but you gotta check behind on the turn and take the free card. And I'm not folding the river

maybe I'm missing something, but the flop raise is very valid, not only to gain a free card, but for value: you have two overcards, a gutshot nut straight draw, and a backdoor flush draw. I can't fault you for that OR for the turn bet, because with this board, he's easily on a draw and you could still be ahead.

I think you're giving too much credit to a player that has done nothing up till this point but call bets. The chance of taking the pot right there plus having up to 7 outs to win plus maybe winning UI with a blank river, all of these can't make betting a terrible play. Yes, if betting won't improve your chances to win you take the free card, but here I think that chance is substantial. Of course, he won't fold to a single bet with a flush or open-ender draw, but you are still ahead at that point.

[Vote4Pedro]

Maybe if it was HU, and you could take a free showdown. The problem is that youre up against multiple opponents and you hold A-high. Checking the turn is the play

[BatsShadow]

grunch. I think I like the flop raise for a free card, but then why bet the turn? You have nothing but overs and a gutshot. Take the card man.

[TomBrooks]

Welcome to the forum, Kis.

You can fold that river. You were playing to your four Queen outs on the turn when you got checkraised.

You didn't even quite have the odds to call that turn checkraise, so maybe you could have folded there too. But implied odds might have made up the difference making a call OK. I don't understand the Implied Odds concept too well.

Betting the turn in the first place was not a good idea. You were worse than a 3 1/2:1 dog to any J or T at that point, two commonly held cards; and you were worse than an 11:1 dog to any two pair or set (a foolishly slowplayed 66, or 55 if he is the fishy calling station type) which MP3 seems to have had when he put the whackadoo on your over-aggressive butt.

[6th1stPIRT]

Thx for the feedback. And yes its the turn play I am worried about. My thought process was something like this: I showed strenght on the flop. He plays almost every other hand. I bet for value or to get a free showdown.

Neither of this worked out since he checkraised me so I didnt get a free showdown..

Well he turned over 55 for a set.
So you all think I should take this free card?

[numeri]

[posting blind]

I imagine this has already been said, but you should take the free card on the turn here. You're not folding anyone out, and if you do get check/raised, you should call. In that case, you want the free card.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
So you all think I should take this free card?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes - you aren't winning this with A-high, so you don't mind showing weakness by checking the turn. Also, you're not folding everyone either, so the bet on the turn isn't for value or to fold anyone. (Some use the term 'fold equity' here - you don't have enough to make the bet worthwhile on the turn IMO.)

I think you overestimate the cards the opponents are holding and their stubborness to hold on to them. I think I can get people to fold a 5, 6 and a 10 here. But I will take the free card the next time.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Thx for the feedback. And yes its the turn play I am worried about. My thought process was something like this: I showed strenght on the flop. He plays almost every other hand. I bet for value or to get a free showdown.

Neither of this worked out since he checkraised me so I didnt get a free showdown..

Well he turned over 55 for a set.
So you all think I should take this free card?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one really important concept is that there's still 2 people remaining. While it's totally possible with the right opponents, the likelihood that you'll win UI and the likelihood that you can value-bet the best hand decreases rapidly with the number of people in. Against one weak player, a turn bet is usually valid, but with both of these guys in I'd usually check behind.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you overestimate the cards the opponents are holding and their stubborness to hold on to them. I think I can get people to fold a 5, 6 and a 10 here. But I will take the free card the next time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but can you get both to fold often enough? A lot depends on your opponents here. Many will still put you on overcards and call down with their crappy pair.

[milesdyson]

i call the flop and fold the turn without an A/K/Q//images/graemlins/club.gif.

the way it played out, what could MP3 have that your pair of kings beats on the river?

I'm putting him on something like 10, 5, suited. Two pair. I'd probably call on the river.