Taking the free card [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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SomethingClever

09-17-2005, 03:07 PM

A lot of the time I'll bet the turn as well when pumping a draw on the flop, but with the K and A out there, I think I'm getting checkraised a lot here. How do you like?

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Victor

09-17-2005, 03:09 PM

i dont like raising the flop heads up here. you will make more by hitting your hand and raising one of the later streets.

Lmn55d

09-17-2005, 03:15 PM

yup dont like flop raise

SteveY

09-17-2005, 03:18 PM

I'm guessing you say that b/c the board is not one where raising gives us enough folding equity. So raising on a K42 board might be better?

I think I just feel like I don't want to put myself in a position to fold my missed draw in case we both have draws.

Also I think I would still bet te turn. As the card is scary for him too

Lmn55d

09-17-2005, 03:20 PM

bb 3bet preflop, why do you expect him to have a draw?

redbeard

09-17-2005, 03:33 PM

i agree. the likelihood of someone being on a pure draw here after three betting preflop is pretty slim. he's probable got a big ace or a large pocket pair. i like the line of calling the flop and turn and folding on the river unimproved or raising whenever you hit the flush. by the time the ace hits you likely have no pair outs and are on a flush draw as your only out.

SomethingClever

09-17-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
by the time the ace hits you likely have no pair outs and are on a flush draw as your only out.

[/ QUOTE ]

The A gives me a double gutshot.

wackjob

09-17-2005, 04:09 PM

With 15 outs to what you must assume is the nuts and the off chance you can fold a better hand you don't think the turn is worth a bet?

SomethingClever

09-17-2005, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With 15 outs to what you must assume is the nuts and the off chance you can fold a better hand you don't think the turn is worth a bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, but put him on a hand that doesn't have a K or an A in it that is folding the turn given that he called the flop raise.

I guess JJ or QQ, but it's much more likely he has Ax or Kx and is at least calling, if not checkraising.

I obviously call the c/r, but I lose money when I'm behind here.

Surfbullet

09-17-2005, 04:33 PM

Hey SC,

I really like your flop raise if you have enough of a handle on your opponent's play that you feel he'll let you take a free card with anything but AA/KK. If he'll routinely 3bet AK or even a pair lower than Ks I don't like it as much, but at 2/4 many players will even shut down here with AK or AA.

The free card is the whole point of raising (since he's almost never folding before SD and our pair outs are no good usually). If he's aggressive or oblivious or pretty much anything but passive + predictable I like waiting until we hit to raise. No worries folding J-hi on the river after we miss 2 streets... we're not missing out on any equity and we've given ourselves the best opportunity to raise with the best hand and get paid.

Also, 2/4?! C'mon man - you better be clearing a bonus. When are we going to see you back at the 5/10? You're too good a player to be at 2/4.

Surf

SomethingClever

09-17-2005, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, 2/4?! C'mon man - you better be clearing a bonus. When are we going to see you back at the 5/10? You're too good a player to be at 2/4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha... I don't know about that, but thanks for the compliment.

I'm rebuilding my confidence... and trying to play some stress-free poker for a while!

Results:

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Villain had AA. pwnt.

Surfbullet

09-17-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Villain had AA. pwnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

helllllllll yeah!

Surf

SteveY

09-17-2005, 04:45 PM

yah you're right. I didn't consider his pf 3bet.

in that case, whether to bet the turn or not i think hinges on how likely he is to fold QQ-99, and i dont think we should expect an unknown to be folding those hands. so yea i would check.