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Bigdaddydvo
09-17-2005, 10:41 AM
So I was watching my 1st season of "Lost" DVDs, and there's a scene where John Locke meets his mom and asks about his dad. She says "Oh, you don't have a father, you were Immaculately Conceived." I see references like this all the time. I'm AMAZED at how many people, Catholics especially, botch the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. Immaculate Conception DOES NOT refer to Christ being conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and not a human father...this is known as the VIRGIN BIRTH. The Immaculate Conception refers to the Catholic belief that, when conceived, Mary's soul did not have the stain of Original Sin. I've pasted a more detailed explanation below. Now feel free to correct those who are ignorant on Catholic Doctrine...

In the Constitution Ineffabilis Deus of 8 December, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."

"The Blessed Virgin Mary . . ." The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body.

". . .in the first instance of her conception . . ." The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul.

". . .was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin. . ." The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was in her soul. Simultaneously with the exclusion of sin. The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam -- from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.

". . .by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race." The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Saviour to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor.

Such is the meaning of the term "Immaculate Conception."

09-17-2005, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a bit confused by how the "merits of Christ" apply, him being unborn. If this is because of him being the son of God, is this nepotism?

Bigdaddydvo
09-17-2005, 10:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a bit confused by how the "merits of Christ" apply, him being unborn. If this is because of him being the son of God, is this nepotism?


[/ QUOTE ]

The merits of Christ apply to Mary. Basically, since time is of no consequence to God, He was able to retroactively apply the grace earned by Christ's anticipated sacrifice on the Cross to Mary at the moment of her conception.

09-17-2005, 11:08 AM
Hmmm...Seems like abusing the linear nature of time for one's own purpose. And if time does have no consequence to God, why does he not just get on with it and get straight to the end of it (Armageddon??), rather than waiting for an indeterminate time?

Bigdaddydvo
09-17-2005, 11:33 AM
All that happens on God's time, not ours...

09-17-2005, 11:39 AM
Errr...what?!?

carlo
09-17-2005, 01:36 PM
Mary's body manifested the "Divine Sophia" which in esoteric understanding is the divine wisdom in the world.There was a transformation of her whole being(not only physical) but one can say of her body, soul and spirit. Understanding the different parts of the human being makes this comprehension more available but is still by no means easy.

If you comprehend all of us as spirit-soul beings activating in a physical body then you might understand how the Christ Activity could manifest in Mary prior to the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. A spirit-soul nature who was alive before birth entered into the embroyo of the Mother of Jesus of Nazareth. Some esoteric understanding of the entry of the Christ Being(not human spirit) would contradict this "birth entry" but sees the "Christ entry" at the baptism by John when the "Spirit descended like a dove" into the being of Jesus of Nazareth.

Consider the whole world as the active manifestations of spiritual beings in the sense that you, with your senses, perceive parts(senses) but not all of their natures. The spirit land is not separate from our world but present but not obtainable theough the physical senses.

carlo

RJT
09-17-2005, 06:29 PM
6 minutes left in 3rd quarter. MSU 31 -ND 17.

I hate these moments when God tests my faith.

Go Irish.

Dang, 38-17.

Get thee to the Grotto.

Bigdaddydvo
09-17-2005, 07:50 PM
Ugh.

This loss reminds me of BC '93.

One thing's for certain...Ty's teams could have never engineered a comeback like that.