40/80 Standard play?

[jayheaps]

i thought this was a pretty standard play, however, a few players much better than I disagree.


Loose 8-handed mixed game. second hand of OMaha 8.

3 early limpers. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Both blinds call.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to cutoff who bets, I raise. All fold to cutoff who calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Co Checks, I bet.

River: 9 spades.

CO checks, you....

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought this was a pretty standard play, however, a few players much better than I disagree.


Loose 8-handed mixed game. second hand of OMaha 8.

3 early limpers. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Both blinds call.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to cutoff who bets, I raise. All fold to cutoff who calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Co Checks, I bet.

River: 9 spades.

CO checks, you....

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like a clear check. If you bet and are called, you are an underdog to have the best hand IMO.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought this was a pretty standard play, however, a few players much better than I disagree.


Loose 8-handed mixed game. second hand of OMaha 8.

3 early limpers. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Both blinds call.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to cutoff who bets, I raise. All fold to cutoff who calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Co Checks, I bet.

River: 9 spades.

CO checks, you....

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way I would have played all the other streets the same way.

[jayheaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i thought this was a pretty standard play, however, a few players much better than I disagree.


Loose 8-handed mixed game. second hand of OMaha 8.

3 early limpers. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Both blinds call.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to cutoff who bets, I raise. All fold to cutoff who calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Co Checks, I bet.

River: 9 spades.

CO checks, you....

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way I would have played all the other streets the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree I did check behind. however, a good friend of mine, who plays 150/300 and up on a regular basis and was in town visitng told me that this was a clear missed bet and one a professional makes.

His logic was basically that any set and most 2 pair hands who have raised the turn or 3-bet the flop given the board. He said it was likely the other player had a big draw and likely a piece of the flop. He tells me that I get called down by queens or jacks alot here.

[pipes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i thought this was a pretty standard play, however, a few players much better than I disagree.


Loose 8-handed mixed game. second hand of OMaha 8.

3 early limpers. I limp on the button with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Both blinds call.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif j /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to cutoff who bets, I raise. All fold to cutoff who calls.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Co Checks, I bet.

River: 9 spades.

CO checks, you....

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way I would have played all the other streets the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree I did check behind. however, a good friend of mine, who plays 150/300 and up on a regular basis and was in town visitng told me that this was a clear missed bet and one a professional makes.

His logic was basically that any set and most 2 pair hands who have raised the turn or 3-bet the flop given the board. He said it was likely the other player had a big draw and likely a piece of the flop. He tells me that I get called down by queens or jacks alot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, 2 reasons to bet the river:
1) Make a better hand fold - Almost no chance here, only shot is if your opponent has just aces
2) Bet on the river is value bet -
You have to have the best hand at least 50% if he calls. So when he calls does he just have a pair of queens or jacks as opposed to a set or two pair over 50% of the time. I don't think so. If alot means 40% of the time, in theory that is not enough.

But he plays 150/300, I play 15/30 lol

[pipes]

But even if a real pro should be making these razor thin river value bets it does not seem like its a very costly mistake not to.

Its not a 1 BB mistake; its a 20% BB mistake at worst it seems.

[Buzz]

Jay - I think an important question is,
"Does CO expect you to bet here after he checks."

You can't very well tell what CO's original 2nd round bet means. Could be a lot of things, including an attempt to steal the pot. But then when CO calls your raise and then check/calls to you on the third betting round, it looks a lot like CO is on a draw.

What could the draw be? Could be a flush, or could be a high straight, or both. Could be CO has closely coordinated cards and has two pair in addition to a straight and/or flush draw.

Let's assume CO thinks about what you're doing. In that case, CO must put you on
• (1) an overpair, like you actually have,
• (2) a set,
• (3) two flopped pairs, or
• (4) a bluff.

The nine, if CO is drawing for a straight, could be a perfect card for CO, giving him the nuts. But if CO bets, he might figure you may fold any of the above possible hands you could have.

Therefore, CO's best play, to induce a bet out of you, is to check the river.

If this is the case, will you fall into the trap or not? You do have a pair of kings. If CO was on a draw and missed, CO is unlikely to call your bet - unless CO specifically has a hand where he flopped two pairs, in which case you lose.

You gain nothing by betting if CO was on a draw and missed - (unless maybe CO puts you on a series of bold bluffs all the way through this hand and calls with one pair).

On the other hand, if CO actually was laying a trap for you, you took the bait.

I agree with Pipes on this one, although our reasoning may be a bit different. I think you check behind CO and hope that your pair of kings will prevail.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[jayheaps]

[ QUOTE ]
Jay - I think an important question is,
"Does CO expect you to bet here after he checks."

You can't very well tell what CO's original 2nd round bet means. Could be a lot of things, including an attempt to steal the pot. But then when CO calls your raise and then check/calls to you on the third betting round, it looks a lot like CO is on a draw.

What could the draw be? Could be a flush, or could be a high straight, or both. Could be CO has closely coordinated cards and has two pair in addition to a straight and/or flush draw.

Let's assume CO thinks about what you're doing. In that case, CO must put you on
• (1) an overpair, like you actually have,
• (2) a set,
• (3) two flopped pairs, or
• (4) a bluff.

The nine, if CO is drawing for a straight, could be a perfect card for CO, giving him the nuts. But if CO bets, he might figure you may fold any of the above possible hands you could have.

Therefore, CO's best play, to induce a bet out of you, is to check the river.

If this is the case, will you fall into the trap or not? You do have a pair of kings. If CO was on a draw and missed, CO is unlikely to call your bet - unless CO specifically has a hand where he flopped two pairs, in which case you lose.

You gain nothing by betting if CO was on a draw and missed - (unless maybe CO puts you on a series of bold bluffs all the way through this hand and calls with one pair).

On the other hand, if CO actually was laying a trap for you, you took the bait.

I agree with Pipes on this one, although our reasoning may be a bit different. I think you check behind CO and hope that your pair of kings will prevail.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with what you are saying, but there is also a chance he could have at least top pair in addition to his holdings. This would likely make him call down if there is any reasonable chance of a bluff.

[Buzz]

Assuming you're going to call any possible check-raise because of the size of the pot forget about what's already in the pot for figuring your odds here.

You're going to collect one big bet from your opponent if he's purely stupid or if he has a pair of queens and if he decides to call your bet with a pair of queens (which may be close to purely stupid).

Otherwise you're going to win nothing by betting.

On the other side of the balance, if your opponent has set a trap for you and plans a check-raise, you're going to lose a bet. Or if he has a pair of aces or two pairs or a set he may just call and you'll lose the one bet.

Is that about right?

Think about what's best for you. Seems real clear to me.

Buzz