i can suck out too

[oddjob]

colorado 2-5. one $2 blind. i'm in ep/mp with JT suited. a bit about the table, there are some really bad players, who will cold call a lot of bets and raises, with very bad hands. most of them are making very questionable
preflop raises as well.

utg+1 limps, i call $2, as does 2mp/lp and the button (who plays everything pretty much to the river, if he think he has a shot at a pair... any pair) the blind raises to $7 and we all call!!!

flop comes up

KQT all black with 2 spades. i have red cards... doh!

blind bets, ep folds, and i raise with my bottom pair open ender.

2 mp/lp players much and the button, of course, calls. this guy has been hitting some ridiculous hands, so i've been really trying to make this guy pay a lot for his suckouts.

the blind 3 bets me. uh oh, flopped straight. pot's huge, so i figure if i hit the ace, we're at least splitting it.

the turn comes an offsuit J

board is now KQTJ.

blind bets, we both call.

river comes a T.

blind bets, i raise, button calls 2 bets?? and teh blind calls.

we show. blind had AK, and the button had something stupid like A7 offsuit.

comments?

[Play Tight]

To start I also play in CO and understand the game as much as anyone I would guess. This is a state where any two cards can win ($5 max raise keeps alot of people in the hand) and this hand is proof.

First of all I think you should of folded as soon as you saw the flop and the button bet out. You must consider many possiblities at this point; He has pocket aces shorting your possiblites of getting a broadway draw, he has pocket K, Q or J giving trips already, he made a bad raise with A,10 and flopped the straight, or he was suited spades with the nut flush re-draw.

The button maid it interesting, he called and as you say he can be holding anything, possibly even slow rolling the straight but more then likely needing a card for his draw, straight or flush. One thought here is that he probably is holding atleast the ace even further shorting your straight draw.

The button 3 bets and your still in the hand?

The turn brought you the worst possible card at this time. If they didn't have it before it's defenitely there now. I don't care how big the pot is at this point your just throwing good money after bad IMO. The button bet and you only called? You tried to show a strong hand on the flop and no one ran, so you only called? You should of atleast raised here to keep up the apperance of a strong hand.

The river brought your lucky 4 out sure winner. Lets face it you got lucky on this particular hand and went runner runner to stack the chips. IMO you should of never been in this hand, you were behind at least one player on the flop and both at the turn. You started stong ran none of the calling stations out and then pussyfooted to an extremely lucky win. I'm not trying to discourage this play because the majority of the time you lose and I hope I'm playing you when it happens.

As far as your last comment about what the others were holding, being stupid cards....They had you beat! until you got lucky.

I think you know that this was a bad play and were just looking to have it justified. You feel great that you stacked the chips but you actually feel bad about the hand...The reason I say this is because I have been there, we all have one hand or another. But this is what makes it poker.

[WiredPair]

Only comment I have is that this sounds like the table I played at on Saturday at the Hyatt. Was that where you played? If it was, I would certainly agree that people play everything. Just curious if this is where you were playing. BTW, if it was, this hands sounds familiar and no, I wasn't in it!

[oddjob]

thank you for your response.

to be honest with you, i can't really take any of your critiques with any sort of feeling that you know what you're talking about.

for one, you didn't pay very much attention to what you read, it seems to me that you are just trying to be as non-constructively critical as you possibly could and you just wanted to berate me for getting lucky.

sure i was behind. sure i did get lucky.

first off i stated that these players were making some not so good pre-flop raises, and a lot of people call with absolute garbage.

let's see i flop an open ended straight, with bottom pair, and you want me to fold for one bet?????? do you wear a sign when you play that says "bet me out, i'm weak"?

i'll raise this everytime with this texture of players in my game.

ok, so i get 3-bet and you want me to fold again?

i'm getting around 15 to 1 odds here.

on the turn i make 2 pair. not that great. i agree. he bets and you think i should raise? if i call, and the button calls (which i was positive he would) i get around 17.5 to 1 odds. if i raise i only get approx. 9 to 1 odds on my bet. then what do i do if i get reraised?

(allright, i know my math is not right, but i think it's close)

this last staetment:

"The river brought your lucky 4 out sure winner. Lets face it you got lucky on this particular hand and went runner runner to stack the chips. IMO you should of never been in this hand, you were behind at least one player on the flop and both at the turn. You started stong ran none of the calling stations out and then pussyfooted to an extremely lucky win. I'm not trying to discourage this play because the majority of the time you lose and I hope I'm playing you when it happens.

As far as your last comment about what the others were holding, being stupid cards....They had you beat! until you got lucky."

for you to say i should have never been in this hand is, in my opinion, is flawed thinking.

this last statement proves to me that you didn't pay particular attention. of course i was behind on the flop. it's fairly obvious that i was raising on the come, not on my bottom pair. on my raise, 2 people folded, which in my opinion, was not that great thing to happen, i was hoping for them to call.

i stated that the button had something stupid like A7o. i did not say they both had stupid cards.

if you never play your draws, then you should not be playing poker IMO.

once again i thank you for your response, because it has given me a chance to really think about the hand.

anyone else have and comments?

[oddjob]

this was at the lodge on saturday.

[Bob T.]

Ni han, even after you made your full house, you weren't out of the woods.

[oddjob]

true. i had concerns about him having the bigger boat, but i could not let myself just call him at the river, knowing that i could have squeezed out 3 more bets out of these guys.

if i had, this would have been a should i have raised the river post.