2/4 - 77 river raise against a TAG

[ClaytonN]

This should generate some nice discussion

Villain is a 22/11/3.3 over 50 hands

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises...</font>

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

[aK13]

Hate the river raise.

I also dislike the rest of it, but I'll share my thoughts on that later.

[Shillx]

Yeah this sucks. The river Q changes nothing in this hand. If you actually had a queen and you didn't think it was good before, why would it all the suddon be good now? Does he really have 83s or KK here?

Calling the river is okay since he would play a flush draw fast here. Raising the river is just reckless.

Brad

[PokerSparky]

The river raise makes no sense to me. If he was on a draw and bluffing, he won't call the raise, but he will call (or 3 bet) with a Q.

I give serious consideration to folding this on the flop. Is that really weak?

[ClaytonN]

I know I'm reckless. Fire away /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
The river Q changes nothing in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
at first i wasn't sure what this meant. it took me 7 seconds to realize that you're saying in words exactly how i feel (emotionally) about this hand.

if he chose to be so aggressive with 89 or 87, he's going to call this raise. if he has a queen he's going to 3-bet. if he has nothing he's going to fold (and you miss out on the information you'd get from seeing his cards). nothing good can come from this raise.

[@bsolute_luck]

a TAG donkbets a pair of 3s? or 3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

[Shillx]

3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

Why not? This is one of the 1st hands that I would put a TAG on here. A set being one of the others.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
a TAG donkbets a pair of 3s? or 3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO his range (in this order) is a good Q, diamond draw, set, middle/bottom pair.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

Why not? This is one of the 1st hands that I would put a TAG on here. A set being one of the others.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow! i'll have to look for that. i haven't seen a flush draw 3-bet OOP HU like this...

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

Why not? This is one of the 1st hands that I would put a TAG on here. A set being one of the others.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow! i'll have to look for that. i haven't seen a flush draw 3-bet OOP HU like this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more 6max. Bet/3bet line is pretty often TP/draw. I would imagine a set would probably take a line that waited for the turn to riase.

EDIT: Also, since he used that line, I think he's a good, thinking player.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3-bets a flush draw? that ain't no TAG.

Why not? This is one of the 1st hands that I would put a TAG on here. A set being one of the others.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow! i'll have to look for that. i haven't seen a flush draw 3-bet OOP HU like this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Play more 6max. Bet/3bet line is pretty often TP/draw. I would imagine a set would probably take a line that waited for the turn to riase.

EDIT: Also, since he used that line, I think he's a good, thinking player.

[/ QUOTE ]

all i'm playing now is 6-max. i've seen it with more people in the hand just not HU. usually i see a c/r here instead, but i've been at tables with loose/passives lately so i'm missing out on this kinda stuff /images/graemlins/frown.gif

and i'm refering to ONLY a flush draw, not a pair + flush draw. like if he has A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif sure. you guys 3-bet with ONLY a flush draw, like say you had K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif?