6-12 hand

[Schmed]

I have A /forums/images/icons/club.gif q /forums/images/icons/club.gif from a mp

UTG calls, two fold, I raise, LP calls,(two off the button), calls folds to the BB and he reraises, UTG folds, I cap, LP player smoothcalls. 3 players see the flop

Flop:

9/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif k /forums/images/icons/club.gif

BB checks, I bet, LP player raises, bb calls, I call.

Turn

10 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

bb checks, I check, LP bets, bb check raises, I fold, lp calls

River;

j /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

BB bets, LP calls,

BB shows down AJo, LP had 10,Jo

Thoughts,

Preflop I didn't have a real feel for what either player had. By chance I had played with both of those players two days before. The guy in the BB was an average player and the guy that was in the LP was a weak player that would play anything until his chips were gone.

When the flop came I knew that the guy in the LP had something big. He was not the raising type unless his hand was beating him over the head telling him to raise. I thought he may have trips or the straight. I put the guy in the BB on a straight/flush draw. When the LP player raised me I called because I figured there was too much money in the pot and this was a good time to take one off. Maybe get lucky and catch the straight or a four flush draw.

On the turn I figured I was drawing dead. I needed a miracle river card. When the BB check raised I knew he had AJ and I would be drawing to one card.

The river brought my miracle card and as much as I would love to have been around to split the LP's money I just figured there wasn't enough of a money in the pot for me to call a 24 dollar bet on a 14-1 shot that my jack hits...(14-1 assumes I was right that the BB had a J)

The part about this hand that I question was how right was my flop call after being raised. I knew the guy had a hand I probably couldn't beat without a miracle or close to a miracle, ( I figured I needed runner runner flush to win the hand).

Another question that I thought about was how right was it to cap the betting from the position I was in preflop with the hand I had.

[Bob T.]

Another question that I thought about was how right was it to cap the betting from the position I was in preflop with the hand I had.


I wouldn't cap it here, most likely you are behind a lot of hands that the BB could three bet with. On the other hand, you had the best hand going in, and maybe you knew that there was a good chance of that, given your opponents.

The part about this hand that I question was how right was my flop call after being raised. I knew the guy had a hand I probably couldn't beat without a miracle or close to a miracle, ( I figured I needed runner runner flush to win the hand).


All he really needs is any king, and your hand is in trouble. On the other hand, there are 17 small bets in the pot right now, I think that you have plenty to draw at a combination of backdoor flush/ trips/ two pair, so I would have called. It turns out that you already needed the backdoor flush, or full house to win, but even with those long shots, you have almost the odds you need to draw here.

The river brought my miracle card and as much as I would love to have been around to split the LP's money I just figured there wasn't enough of a money in the pot for me to call a 24 dollar bet on a 14-1 shot that my jack hits...(14-1 assumes I was right that the BB had a J)


Actually, it was 22-1 for a chop. Not even close.

[Schmed]

How did you come by the 22-1 figure. I figured I had 3 outs to my straight if I was right that the guy in the BB had a J. I would calculate this as 46 unseen cards minus 3 outs divided by 3 outs. So it's 14-1 that my hand hits. At least that's how I figured it out. I'm a little new to this line of thinking so please tell me where I am wrong.

Thanks

[Homer]

Preflop - I wouldn't cap with AQs. You are probably behind BB so at this point see the flop as cheaply as possible. If the pot were more multiway, then I could see capping for value.

Flop - Looks like BB is setting you up for a checkraise, unless he has exactly TT or JJ. Oh well, I'd bet anyway and hope that's what he has. If he has you beat, hopefully he is waiting until the turn to checkraise you and you can surprise him by checking behind. After LP raises and BB coldcalls (warning bells!!) you are probably drawing very very thin. It is likely that LP has a straight and BB has a set of Kings or Queens (more likely Kings since two Queens are accounted for). I would be very tempted to fold right here, even though I am getting 18:1. Your only outs are to a runner-runner flush (which will be expensive because all hell is going to break out on the turn) and possibly to the two remaining Queens (even these may not be good most of the time). The more I think about it, the more I think you should FOLD RIGHT HERE.

Turn - Obviously you fold for two big bets here. Looks like BB does have a set. I'm still thinking that LP has a straight, but for some irrational reason now fears AJ.

River - Looks like the J gave BB a chop where he would have lost with his set.

Comments - Wow, BB had AJo?! Write down some notes on this guy immediately! LP had JT as I expected (oh well, one out of two ain't half bad!)

-- Homer

[Bob T.]

22-1 In hindsight, because I now know both hands, and they both had a jack, so there were only two left. 14 to 1 was correct if you assume that there was only 1 jack out there.

[Schmed]

"I wouldn't cap with AQs"

Ya know I thought it may not have been the greatest play to cap there right after I did. One of the reasons I was capping was because I figured if I could get the LP player to fold I would have it heads up against a player who I perceived as being an average player but I know he preceived me as someone to watch out for. I had run over the table that I played with him on Thursday night and I was running over that table on Saturday as well.....(had a nice couple of days at the tables this weekend...I think I've given up Omaha for a while and sticking exclusively to holdm... /forums/images/icons/grin.gif )

Initially I was thinking the same thing as you. I actually was thinking that the BB may have AK or something then again a lot of hands went through my mind when he cold called. Playing with that guy before I figured he wasn't all that tricky. I ruled out top pair because he didn't come out betting. That's why I was thinking a draw to a straight or something. Funny when he check raised the turn I put him on the AJ...I at least thought it was suited /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif .

I was an interesting weekend at the 6-12 table. I usually play 1-4-8-8 half omaha half holdm but wanted to have more control over the game so I decided to start playing 6-12 holdm. One thing I notice players doing is calling too much. It becomes profitable on your good hands so really I don't have a problem with it but honestly would you have stayed in a pot that was capped with either of the two hands that were in there??

[Schmed]

Oh you mean the other jack I put the guy on.......sometimes I just don't see the forest through the trees....... /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[Louie Landale]

Its a big pot. You call closes the action. Players can and do screw around ON the flop and slow-down on the turn. You don't have many outs but are still drawing live. Pretty routine flop call to me.