Bling bling blind battle.

[Entity]

Villain is an overaggressive TAG. May be tilting -- I honestly don't know. I've been 3-betting her a lot and getting the best of most flops. I don't consider her a particularly good player or handreader but that's subjective.

Folded to her, she raises from the SB. I 3-bet black Aces from the BB, she calls, and we're off to the races.

Flop is J35r and she bets. I call. Sometimes I raise and sometimes I call, I don't think it makes a huge difference in the long run.

The turn is a T, completing the rainbow. She checks, I bet, and she checkraises. I 3-bet. She caps and I don't feel happy, but I'm not horribly sad. I know she's overaggressive, she probably thinks the same of me, so our bet-raising ranges are probably escalated a bit (according to PA my table stats for the session are 32/25/2.5).

The river is a 3. She bets and I raise.

Holla?

[EvanJC]

you just beat j10. well played

[mute]

I would be happy to just call this river and let her show me JT.

I think she will have JT about as often as JJ, TT, 55 or 33, but you are gonna lose a bet more against the latter (unless you feel comfortable folding to a 3-bet, which I wouldn't).

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be happy to just call this river and let her show me JT.

I think she will have JT about as often as JJ, TT, 55 or 33, but you are gonna lose a bet more against the latter (unless you feel comfortable folding to a 3-bet, which I wouldn't).

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I think she will never have JJ or TT. How much does that clear things up?

Rob

[Grisgra]

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I would be happy to just call this river and let her show me JT.

I think she will have JT about as often as JJ, TT, 55 or 33, but you are gonna lose a bet more against the latter (unless you feel comfortable folding to a 3-bet, which I wouldn't).

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I think she will never have JJ or TT. How much does that clear things up?

Rob

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I like your line, but have no idea why you think she'll never have JJ or TT here, but probably has JT.

[Entity]

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I would be happy to just call this river and let her show me JT.

I think she will have JT about as often as JJ, TT, 55 or 33, but you are gonna lose a bet more against the latter (unless you feel comfortable folding to a 3-bet, which I wouldn't).

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I think she will never have JJ or TT. How much does that clear things up?

Rob

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I like your line, but have no idea why you think she'll never have JJ or TT here, but probably has JT.

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Against me especially (though also in general against aggressive opposition), I think this particular villain (29/22 or so) caps pairs like 77 & 88 preflop 90% of the time, and 99+ very close to 100%. If there were a high pocket pair she wouldn't cap preflop, my guess is it would be AA or KK for "deception" rather than TT or JJ.

Obviously this is just a guess but it needs to be strongly weighted. We've been playing together for well over an hour, and I think she's more likely to send lots of bets my way with a pocket pair preflop than not.

Rob

[mute]

Yeah, then I like it better. Only 4 combos of 55 and 33.

[wuarhg]

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32/25/2.5

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I've been meaning to ask you about this, mostly out of curiosity. What kind of hands are you going that crazy with to get your pfr up to 23-25ish? And what is your fold bb and sb to steal.

I think this hand looks pretty standard, but it's one of those hands were you probably know better than anyone what is/was the right play depending on your feel for the game and players. And I am assuming you'll pay off a river 3-bet here?

[Grisgra]

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Against me especially (though also in general against aggressive opposition), I think this particular villain (29/22 or so) caps pairs like 77 & 88 preflop 90% of the time, and 99+ very close to 100%. If there were a high pocket pair she wouldn't cap preflop, my guess is it would be AA or KK for "deception" rather than TT or JJ.

Obviously this is just a guess but it needs to be strongly weighted. We've been playing together for well over an hour, and I think she's more likely to send lots of bets my way with a pocket pair preflop than not.

Rob

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Makes sense. Means the river raise is even more obvious.

[Danenania]

I like your river raise but I see no reason to 3-bet the turn. Even if you thought you were good often enough (which I don't think you are unless this is her typical line with TP or something) you should call planning to raise any river. But the way I play it is simply calling her turn raise then calling the river unless an A, 3, or 5 comes off.

[Entity]

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I like your river raise but I see no reason to 3-bet the turn. Even if you thought you were good often enough (which I don't think you are unless this is her typical line with TP or something) you should call planning to raise any river. But the way I play it is simply calling her turn raise then calling the river unless an A, 3, or 5 comes off.

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Hmm. I think she'd c/r TP and probably slightly more (though no draw hands) on the turn after I flat call the flop. I know a lot of players would do that, but that's from a limited sample. Had I raised the flop, I would definitely agree though.

Rob

[Danenania]

But do you see why even if you're ahead often enough to 3-bet, it would be better to wait for the river? This is much like SpicyF's famous saving bets by waiting to the river post of yesteryear.

[bugstud]

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32/25/2.5

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I've been meaning to ask you about this, mostly out of curiosity. What kind of hands are you going that crazy with to get your pfr up to 23-25ish? And what is your fold bb and sb to steal.

I think this hand looks pretty standard, but it's one of those hands were you probably know better than anyone what is/was the right play depending on your feel for the game and players. And I am assuming you'll pay off a river 3-bet here?

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when I played less tables I isolated limpers and light raisers a ton. Get to like 35ish vpip on the button raising all of them and you get there...

[Shillx]

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I like your river raise but I see no reason to 3-bet the turn. Even if you thought you were good often enough (which I don't think you are unless this is her typical line with TP or something) you should call planning to raise any river. But the way I play it is simply calling her turn raise then calling the river unless an A, 3, or 5 comes off.

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This concept is probably more useful when you have a hammer lock on the hand and don't want to lose somebody who is drawing thin or dead. If the villian will not fold something like QJ on the river, it makes no difference what we do. If she will fold that same hand on the end when we 3-bet the turn, then it makes sense to wait until 5th street. I don't think that this player is folding a good pair for one bet on the river if she calls our 3-bet, but I could be wrong. It would be a lot closer imo against a better player since he could find those kinds of folds (but he also might fold to the river raise so I dunno).

Entity - This all looks reasonable to me. The river raise clearly has value as a lot of rivered boats would have been capped preflop (namely JJ and TT).

Brad

[Danenania]

The reason is not to string her along, it's to save a bet against two pair on the river since if you wait and raise the river she will often think the river helped you especially if it's something like a K, Q, or 9 and not 3-bet you (when she would have capped if you 3-bet the turn). Also your equity will be better on the river since you have 8 outs to suckout on JT.

[Shillx]

That is a good argument, but there is also a downside to this play. Let's just say that if we agree put 4 or more bets in on the turn/river, she will turn her hand face up after the turn check/raise (she has JT everytime). In this case we should choose to 3-bet the turn. Why?

Either way we lose 4 bets when we don't improve. When she caps the turn we will fold the river UI so we lose 4 BB. If we just call the check/raise and raise the river we also lose 4 BB since we don't payoff a 3-bet.

When we do improve though we make more by 3-betting the turn. After she caps the turn, she will either bet or check/call the river when she gets counterfitted. So we make 5-6 BB when we improve and 3-bet the turn while we only get 4 BB when we improve and raise the river since she won't put in a river 3-bet. This is the reason why I like putting the $$$ in on 4th street provided that we can be sure that AA is no good when she caps the turn.

It gets more complicated if she can have a set, but there are more ways that she can have JT then 33+55 so we get extra value by jamming the turn with the worst hand as opposted to waiting.

Brad

[Entity]

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The reason is not to string her along, it's to save a bet against two pair on the river since if you wait and raise the river she will often think the river helped you especially if it's something like a K, Q, or 9 and not 3-bet you (when she would have capped if you 3-bet the turn). Also your equity will be better on the river since you have 8 outs to suckout on JT.

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Playing this defensively does come at the cost of losing one bet to any single pair hands that would checkraise this turn, though.

I understand where you're going and the idea behind it, but I feel like 3-betting the turn c/r nets me more when ahead (duh), and also gives her a disincentive for checkraising me in the future.

Rob