FPS/insane aggressioin with AA?

[tyler_cracker]

Villain is loose/passive. I think this is the first time she's raised preflop in about 50 hands. She was something like 45/0/.4 over 50.

I have some reasoning behind this play, but i want to see what y'all say first.


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.75 BB

[POKhER]

Preflop: Why not cap? I cap with AA... Just like i breath air.
Flop:Standard raise? I suppose you didn't want to scare her so you could abuse her on the turn?

Turn: Standard
River: Standard.

Im scared after the turn, But im still dying to cap it. 3bet would be a happy medium... position sucks for this unfortunatly.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
I have some reasoning behind this play,

[/ QUOTE ]

Does it involve you hating money?

[deception5]

Cap preflop 100% of the time. She is very likely to have an overpair, will not consider what you might have, and I would not slowdown until the turn is capped at which point I would start thinking about the possibility of JJ.

[Shillx]

Your play here is out of line imo.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
Your play here is out of line imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Hero was playing 2/4 would it still be out of line? (I know this is micro, but I think if Hero caps PF the hand plays differently - well at .50/1 I'm not so sure)

[POKhER]

[ QUOTE ]
Your play here is out of line imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which means you would play it how? I often agree, Therefore like to see your play.

[J. Stew]

I'll cap preflop, lead the flop and see what she does. If she raises the flop I three bet and see what she does again. If she caps I'm thinking KK and lead the turn. If she just calls the flop-three-bet, her range is a little more broad, QQ or maybe JJ. If she just calls the flop three bet, then goes crazy after I lead the turn when the Jack comes I may slow down. The problem with playing it how you did is that you don't know if she got lucky and hit her set of jacks. With more aggression pre-flop and on the flop you can define your hand a little better and possibly slow down should you believe you're behind on the turn and save some bigger bets. A passive player usually isn't three-betting and capping the turn/river with just an overpair. If your passive play pf and on the flop tricked her into going to war with Kings then I think you got lucky in a perfect situation.

[tyler_cracker]

A loose-passive player like Villain isn't 3-betting preflop without AA/KK, probably QQ, maybe JJ, maybe AK.

By the time it got back to me preflop, we were heads up. Capping preflop is only going to slow her down. So i just call.

The flop is completely safe, so i just called. At best, she has the other AA and we're going to split, or she's drawing to 2 outs. I want to extract big bets from her.

The turn completes a 2-outer for one of her hands, but i'm still ahead of the vast majority of her range:

AA (1 way)
KK (6 ways)
QQ (6 ways)
AK (8 ways)

vs.

JJ (3 ways)

I decided that the fact i've shown no aggression convinces her that i'm just being a retard, so we go to war.

If i had raised on the flop, i don't think i would have gotten nearly as much money out of her (though obviously this case is pathological since she hit her 2-outer on the turn).

In retrospect, i think the river 3-bet was excessive simply *because* she was so passive. Against a more aggressive player, it's fine because i'm beating everything but JJ. A passive player, however, probably has something big to keep raising. OTOH, since i'm behind exactly one of her possible starting hands, maybe it's okay to just keep raising.

In new retrospect, i think bet/calling the flop is better, as it's less likely to make her slow down, but still puts more money in the pot.

I'm sure i'm still a donkey, but where have i gone wrong in my thinking?

I do not like anything about this hand if we are dealing with a passive player. 3-bet preflop and keep betting. Loose passive players like to call, let them. When they start raising you should be worried, unless they are REALLY bad and you have a SPECIFIC read to think they might play this way with AJ, KK, or QQ.

Against an aggressive player I actually like the line. I will do this HU instead of capping I smooth call, and get a c/r in on the turn. A really aggresive bad player will three bet this turn a lot with QQ or KK. Even against these types of players I will just call if they raise my river lead.

[Shillx]

There is quite a bit of fundamental misunderstanding here (not just from the OP). When you play AA like this preflop, you don't try for a turn check/raise. It becomes even more important as you move up that you don't make these kinds of plays since many people are willing to 3-bets on a 922r flop with hands like AK. The key to these hands is that YOU should be the one betting on 4th street. Those lines always get the most amount of $$$. Here is what you do...

A) Check/raise the flop.

Some players will just call the flop check/raise and then raise the turn with their best hands (QQ and KK). This allows you to get a 3rd bet in on a big street. Other players will 3-bet the flop with both good and so-so hands. You should then either call the 3-bet and donk the turn or just cap.

B) Check/call the flop and bet the turn.

Your turn bet out of thin air will often times get raised and that allows you to go for 3-bets. This is far better then going for a turn check/raise since the turn will get checked through a good % of the time when the bad guy has AK or whatever. It also allows you to get 3 bets instead of 2 when the villian has a good hand.

The best type of villian to do this play against is obviously aggressive (loose-aggressive is best), but I will admit that a loose-passive isn't the worst person to do it against. It is the tight-passive and weak-tight people that you have to play your hand fast against. I would side for capping aginst a 45/0 player though.

Brad

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
This is far better then going for a turn check/raise since the turn will get checked through a good % of the time when the bad guy has AK or whatever.

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I agree and would also add that it's superior because it shows less strength than a turn c/r which will slow down many players even with a monster like QQ, especially as you play against players with better hand reading skills.