($27) I've said many times...

[durron597]

... that I will never fold KK preflop online. But then this happened. Would you here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t60, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t60, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t270</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t210, MP2 calls t210, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1500</font>, Hero ???

[adanthar]

Not a chance in hell at Party, anyway.

[bluefeet]

I call quickly. Granted a possible 2-3-way[or more], with OD (original donk + his neighbor) calling w/ ?? might suck. But I can NOT put Button on AA here. He's not cold-calling from the Button after one has already called UTG+1's 3x - just isn't happening enough for you to give this up IMO. Could just as well be an AK looking to outspike the PP's - now drooling at an anormous pile 1st hand.

With this kind of action behind OD, a second time around...you might just go at this monster pot, HU, completely dominating Button.




[edit again: ok, i think 4 edits will do......but you got me excited! /images/graemlins/wink.gif]

[ QUOTE ]
But I can NOT put Button on AA here. He's not cold-calling from the Button after one has already called UTG+1's 3x

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's possible... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=3424833&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1#Post3424915)

Tough spot durron, but I think he's likely to do this w/QQ or even AK, so I call the push.

[Nicholasp27]

nope

unless i see his cards face up and they are aa, i'm not folding kk pf

[cha59]

Well, maybe he has AA, so what? I think the odds of seeing that are small. Im sure you have seen betting like this before and its a donk trying to bluff with his Q4o. Im assuming you dont know these players. Against unknowns, this is a situation I like to be in. You have KK. Autocall IMO. If he did have AA, oh well, fire up another game.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe he has AA, so what? I think the odds of seeing that are small. Im sure you have seen betting like this before and its a donk trying to bluff with his Q4o. Im assuming you dont know these players. Against unknowns, this is a situation I like to be in. You have KK. Autocall IMO. If he did have AA, oh well, fire up another game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really I'm trying to decide if there is any betting pattern *at all* where I can put a guy on AA. I guess you all are saying no.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe he has AA, so what? I think the odds of seeing that are small. Im sure you have seen betting like this before and its a donk trying to bluff with his Q4o. Im assuming you dont know these players. Against unknowns, this is a situation I like to be in. You have KK. Autocall IMO. If he did have AA, oh well, fire up another game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really I'm trying to decide if there is any betting pattern *at all* where I can put a guy on AA. I guess you all are saying no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two limp reraisers maybe?

Whatever. Anyway, in the actual hand, I think he can easily have mid-pockets that he wanted to see a flop with and changed plans. Could be a totally weird donk play. Could be AK; could be poorly played QQ. You're probably more than 50% against a weighted range, and the pot's got money in it too.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe he has AA, so what? I think the odds of seeing that are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt say that...but anything less than 50% is good enough...I would say there's about a 30% of him having it here. I call.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Two limp reraisers maybe?

Whatever. Anyway, in the actual hand, I think he can easily have mid-pockets that he wanted to see a flop with and changed plans. Could be a totally weird donk play. Could be AK; could be poorly played QQ. You're probably more than 50% against a weighted range, and the pot's got money in it too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The other issue is that EP or MP may have AA as well. Obviously not as often as button but still a % chance.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Really I'm trying to decide if there is any betting pattern *at all* where I can put a guy on AA. I guess you all are saying no.

[/ QUOTE ]

They exist. It's just that this particular pattern basically says 'I'm retarded', not necessarily 'I have AA and I'm retarded'. I've seen this two dozen times at Party and most of them it was 44.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Two limp reraisers maybe?

Whatever. Anyway, in the actual hand, I think he can easily have mid-pockets that he wanted to see a flop with and changed plans. Could be a totally weird donk play. Could be AK; could be poorly played QQ. You're probably more than 50% against a weighted range, and the pot's got money in it too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The other issue is that EP or MP may have AA as well. Obviously not as often as button but still a % chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

EP's cold call of your reraise lookes like MPP or a big ace. MP looks like big suited connectors, Axs, maybe Kxs, a small PP, or just a donk who wants to see a flop. I agree that others can have AA, of course, but I think the extra money in the pot from them overwhelms this factor. Of course, I play different stakes than you, and slowplaying may be more common at the 27s.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe he has AA, so what? I think the odds of seeing that are small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt say that...but anything less than 50% is good enough...I would say there's about a 30% of him having it here. I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats probably pretty close. What I should have said in the first place is "small enough that I wouldnt hesitate to call".

If I see AA or KK in my hand at a SnG (cash games are a little different), I want to be all-in EVERY time before the flop.

For goodness sakes, call! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]

EP's cold call of your reraise lookes like MPP or a big ace. MP looks like big suited connectors, Axs, maybe Kxs, a small PP, or just a donk who wants to see a flop. I agree that others can have AA, of course, but I think the extra money in the pot from them overwhelms this factor. Of course, I play different stakes than you, and slowplaying may be more common at the 27s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its impossible to put any of them on a range anywhere near what you suggest here at these stakes. If you can do that so narrowly at the higher limits, I'm very impressed.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

EP's cold call of your reraise lookes like MPP or a big ace. MP looks like big suited connectors, Axs, maybe Kxs, a small PP, or just a donk who wants to see a flop. I agree that others can have AA, of course, but I think the extra money in the pot from them overwhelms this factor. Of course, I play different stakes than you, and slowplaying may be more common at the 27s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that it's likely, I'm just saying that I have to add that chance when I'm deciding whether or not to call.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
... that I will never fold KK preflop online. But then this happened. Would you here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t20, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t60, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t60, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t270</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t210, MP2 calls t210, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1500</font>, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG...I am so stupid, how did I miss it. Button called the 60 PF with how many limpers? And you think he has AA? No fn way...bring it down to about 5%...as for the others? no fn way...if so, they played it wrong.

If he had it, and this was your thought process as well, then I am sorry he had it. But, besides the fact I never lay down KK PF, this pattern does NOT loook like AA to me if thats any help. I wont feel bad if it turns out so....ever

[durron597]

Just as an FYI, I called before I could finish saying "[censored]". I will say whether anyone had AA in a bit.

[curtains]

I would call anyway.

[New York Jet]

A reraise to t1500 says, "Please go away", not "Come on in, the water is warm". I would be more worried about a mini-reraise. Call!!!!!

[microbet]

I would call. I wouldn't be shocked if no one had AA. The first raise to 60 didn't mean that much and then people are call call calling stations until the final raise. If that raise had been less than allin it would have looked more like AA. Of course, raising to less than AA would be awfully transparent, but that wouldn't stop a lot of players.

Also, it's not party and it's not a bottom buyin, but I wouldn't think these tables are immune from the cascading first hand get your money in the pot craziness.