$22 - Small suited one-gapper from the SB

[SoCalPat]

$20+$2 at Paradise.

It's level 5 (50/100 blinds) and I'm the chip leader with 2,600 and I'm dealt 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Folded to me in the SB and I raise 200. I'm just hoping to steal. BB is 3rd with 1,700 and puts in a miniraise to 300 and I call the 100.

Flop comes 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

What's your line?

[junkmail3]

Raise to 300 preflop. Fold to a reraise in that case.

On the flop in this situation thought, I'd check/call a small bet. And just let it go to a big enough bet. You don't need to get involved in this hand for a lot of your chips.

[playtitleist]

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Folded to me in the SB and I raise 200. I'm just hoping to steal. BB is 3rd with 1,700

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I re-read your post before I hit submit, and glad I did. I thought you raised to t200, but you seem to have raised it by t200 and he came back with a t100 raise. Odd.

Any way, I gotta figure BB missed this flop with the pre-flop raise. I'd bet half the pot and fold to any raise.

[45suited]

Depends on your read of BB and if you're feelin' lucky.

FWIW, you're a slight favorite over two black aces on that flop.

BTW, making a substantial flop bet and folding to a raise is horrible. Pushing the flop would be better than this line. Anything would be better than betting half pot and folding to a raise. You have very strong hand and the chip lead.

[bennies]

I'm not letting go of a flush draw (+ a possible gut shot) and a pair. So, I see two options.

1) push

2) checkpush

A 3-bet would be an option if your opponent had more chips.

[playtitleist]

Bet/fold feels horrible when you do it. But I don't think a push is needed to take down the pot with this flop and if Villain says he's got it, he's probably got it. I'll puke if he raises, but I'll fold and be in good chip position to play on.

Major leak in my play here? If so, I want to know.

First off, I would have just limped in or given up my sb. There's no reason to build a big pot out of position with crappy cards. However, since you raised, you have to call the minraise. Now, Questions. How many players left? Are there short stacks? Reads on the min-reraiser? I really don't know what to think when people do this minraise. It could have meant that he was spite raising you for minraising his bb, or he could have a high pair and not want to lose you. Anyway, I guess I would suggest two possible lines. The first, which I would probably go with would be to check and hope to hit a free or cheap flush, two pair, or trips, and then pray he was getting trappy with Aces. Or, if you read his bet for weakness you could checkraise and try to take the pot away from him, with a potentially strong hand. The other option would be to bet out half to two thirds of the pot and hope that he either goes away or just calls and you flush him out. I think the best play would be to check this flop and then proceed according to his actions, your pot odds, and your read of the player. By the way, I'd be much more likely to checkraise all in if he made a pot size bet then if he bet just 1/2 the pot. A lot of the players on the 11's and 22's will overbet a hand like Ace Face no pair on this flop, in which case you would be aheand

[45suited]

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Bet/fold feels horrible when you do it. But I don't think a push is needed to take down the pot with this flop and if Villain says he's got it, he's probably got it. I'll puke if he raises, but I'll fold and be in good chip position to play on.

Major leak in my play here? If so, I want to know.

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Well, let's look at the numbers. There's 600 in the pot on the flop. If you bet half the pot, now it's 900. Say he raises all-in. Now there's 2300 in the pot, and you would have to call 1100. You'd be getting over 2:1 odds and as I said, you're just over even money against two black aces.

You have a very strong hand here. Against alot of opponents (given that he is in 2nd, I have the chiplead, AND if I lose, I still have 9 BBs), I'd just open push this flop. You certainly can't make a substantial bet and fold to a push getting over 2:1.

[durron597]

I check-raise this flop 100% of the time. You don't really mind a free card and you almost certainly have the best hand. If the pot was bigger I would just open push.

[45suited]

The only thing that I don't like about the C/R is that I don't really want to encourage villain to call. I have a strong hand / strong draw, but I'd just as soon take the pot now. I mean, it's possible that you could scare an overpair into folding if you push (I don't know how often this would happen, but he might be someone who just wants to ITM), but if you C/R, you're encouraging action when you really don't want it.

I can live with getting all my chips in, but I'd prefer to just take the pot now. Durron, what do you think of this logic?

[durron597]

A checkraise is scarier than an open push. I think a c/r is *more* likely to get a fold, not less.

And betting less than a push is even worse because of the times he just calls and the turn blanks.

[45suited]

The thing is, I don't agree with your assessment that you're almost certainly ahead. Villain mini-reraised PF. It would not be surprising if he has an overpair.

If all my chips are going in, I want them going in with the most FE. Seems to me that it is at least possible to get an overpair to fold (unlikely, I know), whereas the C/R is encouraging action.

I do agree that I don't like leading out. A flat call followed by a bad turn really sucks. And betting / folding to a raise is not an option either. I like to push and make him make a decision for his tournament life.

[durron597]

If I have an overpair, I am never ever ever folding to an open push. Even if it is 88.

On the other hand, I would at least consider the possibility of folding to a c/r with a hand like JJ. Never ever to an open push.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
If I have an overpair, I am never ever ever folding to an open push. Even if it is 88.

On the other hand, I would at least consider the possibility of folding to a c/r with a hand like JJ. Never ever to an open push.

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Just a couple question w/ the c/r line:
- what if he pushes behind? obviously we've missed our opportunity to display "incredible strength". are we calling?
- what if he checks behind? are we pushing a blank turn still? attempting another c/r attempt? c/c?

PP or not, I think he's at least going to *blink* here, and *blink* some more, maybe request time and *blink* some more. I'm leaning toward the "put his tourney on the line, with a great chance to win the hand, life if we don't" camp.

[SoCalPat]

First off, some great responses. In addition, I'll try and answer the questions that some of you posed:

There were six players left. One player close to the felt, everyone else in decent shape. Lots of "intermediate" stacks, ie, roughly half of the big stack. Many of them were weak-tight. Way too much miniraising. Personally, I love this kind of game because my implied odds are so great. They'll put in that miniraise, but their play is mostly predictable post-flop, and they can't get away from their big PP. Getting away from WTPWK isn't a problem for me in no limit.

For example, I recently was in the BB with 79o and an EP raiser put in a mini-raise and got three callers. My stack was decent, so I called and got a flop of 997 which remained the nuts to the river, and I crippled the miniraiser holding KK ... and with an all-in bet on the river, no less.

But I digress.

Some clarification on my initial raise. Being in the SB, I needed 50 to complete. I made it 200 to go, meaning my opponent needed to only call 100. Instead he came back with the miniraise, making it 300 to go (I'm hoping I've got the proper usage of "to go" down here). Regardless, with only 100 more to see the flop, I'm not folding here.

The BB screwed up by not putting in a bigger raise. I'm turbomucking if he comes over the top all-in, and I couldn't even begin to rationalize calling off more than 100 in a raise to see the flop. I had some success in the last three orbits stealing from him. He should've gambled that I was willing to gamble with raise-worthy hands from the SB with my big stack.

I open-pushed the flop. My figuring was that, short of a set, I'm still in very good shape if I'm behind. If my opponent has AK or thereabouts, he's gotta be moved off this hand, unless he's got a bigger flush draw.

And what did the SB have? Nothing else but two black aces.

But it gets better. I make my flush on the turn, but it's with an ace. So now I've made my best possible hand, but he's got a huge redraw on me. But a black deuce hits on the river and MHIG.

I'm always loathe to chase heads-up. I'd much rather be the aggressor, and in this hand, with this flop, it seemed like the perfect time to be the aggressor.

And if I lost? I still had 9 BBs, and I've played from behind into the money with far less. Not the ideal situation, but given the best-case scenario with this hand, it was worth the gamble. Not only did I win the hand, but I carried a 7.5-1.5-1 advantage into the money and cruised to first.

[durron597]

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Just a couple question w/ the c/r line:
- what if he pushes behind? obviously we've missed our opportunity to display "incredible strength". are we calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unlikely, but call as a favorite with dead money. If he's pushing he prolly has a flush draw and we have a pair and dead outs.

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- what if he checks behind? are we pushing a blank turn still? attempting another c/r attempt? c/c?

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I probably check call a bet where the math says I can, fold if I can't.

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PP or not, I think he's at least going to *blink* here, and *blink* some more, maybe request time and *blink* some more. I'm leaning toward the "put his tourney on the line, with a great chance to win the hand, life if we don't" camp.

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I'm not saying pushing isn't +EV, it is. But check raising is MORE +EV.

[durron597]

Against AA you are getting all the money in on that flop anyway. But against AK you extract more with a checkraise.

Openpushing certainly isn't horrible.