A2 vs AA

[AnyAce]

This situation comes up fairly regularly and so I wanted to get people's thoughts on how they play it:

You are dealt something like:

3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

A limper to me and I pot it to $4.50 preflop. Folded to solid player in BB who repots by raising $14. Limper folds.

This screams out to me as AAxx(with decent low draw). I call and the two of us see a flop of:

3 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

As expected, BB immediately pots it. I usually call here and hope to make low on the turn but realize it may be a bad gamble but have trouble laying down here.

If flop had been 2 spades instead of 2 clubs then I would re-raise him.

How would you all play this preflop and on the flop?

Thanks
AA

(In the case in question BB had AA67)

[DougShrapnel]

With your hand i think you want to see all five cards. So if you are going to raise 1 limper preflop the pot, i say just repot until all your chips are in the middle.

Stack size is a most important detail, and is should be included to get more accurate responses.

[AnyAce]

Thanks Doug.

You are right I should have mentioned stack size. In my head I was assuming that both myself and the reraiser had roughly the same stacks (in the neighborhood of $100 each the last time it happened to me)

Thanks.
AA

[Cooker]

This is a common situation and I don't know quite what to do, so lets look at some twodimes info. I will assume the reraiser must have AA with and probably a wheel card and flush draw to go with it. Lets see how you fair preflop:

If he has AA2x you are about a 2 to 1 dog
If he has AA3x you are about a 3 to 2 dog
If he has AA4x you are about an 11 to 9 dog
If he has AAxx with really nothing extra in there you are a slight dog
If he has AAQ9 rainbow then you have a tiny edge

I don't like a reraise since you can't be much favorite here and you can be a significant dog. Still, there is no way you can fold preflop since you are getting 2 to 1.

On to the flop, he may have you in bad shape and he may not. Lets see what happens EV wise:

If he has the FD:

AA2x is a 2 to 1 favorite over you
AA3x is a 3 to 2 favorite over you
AA4x is a 3 to 2 favorite over you
AA8x is a 5 to 4 favorite over you
AAxx is a 5 to 4 favorite over you (he has no low draw here)

If he has no FD:

AA2x is a 3 to 2 favorite over you
AA3x is essentially even money
AA4x is essentially even money
AA8x is an 11 to 9 dog to you
AAxx is an 11 to 9 dog to you (xx contains no low draw)

This street depends totally on the player. Will he fire without the flush draw and with no real low hopes either? Would he have made the preflop raise with a junky AAxx hand? If so then you may want to raise and he may fold. If he is pretty conservative, he probably has enough to have you behind, but you are only 2 to 1 behind to even his best hands. I think you need to see what the turn brings here.

Lets consider some turn options. If the turn brings a low and doesn't give you a straight draw at least to go with your nut low then I would fold if he fires again unless he is a total maniac and you think your 3s might be good for high. If the turn gives you trip 3s or 2 pair (maybe not with the aces) I am betting or raising the full amount when the action gets to me. If the low comes and I get a wheel draw with it, I am betting/raising the pot. Obviously, if the turn brings the flush and he bets again, I fold.

Change the clubs on the flop to spades and you have an easy reraise on the flop.

[Ribbo]

In a lot of games online, a lot of players will only reraise with AA preflop (not a bad gameplan at all, one I stick to fairly rigidly). You must learn to fold to this reraise. It's only cost you $9. You will want to see flops with AK23 sure, but "one more call" syndrome is expensive, and you have to nip it in the bud before it starts, for exactly that reason on the flop. Folding preflop I believe will save you $100 more than it will win you $100 because I guarantee AAxx vs AK23, the AK23 will play the flop worse in the long term. People just never fold A2 "but it's s00ted!". If you want to win a big pot, try not to do it against people with AA.

[emptyshell]

I'd never fold that preflop. On the flop, 1 pair + low draw is enough for me to push. You are probably even money. Hope he folds.

[Chamonyx]

A23 is a hand that you want to see a flop with against several players who you have "taxed" for calling with substandard hands. When he re-pots, I am still happy to see the flop, especially with postiion, but I have to give him credit for the Ace of clubs and so bail out after the flop. If spades come or the right combination on the flop then it is definitely worth staying around.

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]
In a lot of games online, a lot of players will only reraise with AA preflop (not a bad gameplan at all, one I stick to fairly rigidly). You must learn to fold to this reraise. It's only cost you $9. You will want to see flops with AK23 sure, but "one more call" syndrome is expensive, and you have to nip it in the bud before it starts, for exactly that reason on the flop. Folding preflop I believe will save you $100 more than it will win you $100 because I guarantee AAxx vs AK23, the AK23 will play the flop worse in the long term. People just never fold A2 "but it's s00ted!". If you want to win a big pot, try not to do it against people with AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

My original instinct was to fold preflop since you didn't want to get into a guessing game and guess yourself into a likely quarter against AA2, but looking at the stats I posted, I am not sure. In this hand, every call looks profitable, but against some hands they are pretty thin and your hand doesn't play well postflop in this situation. Most of the time you are going to be chasing a low not knowing if you are getting quartered or not. It will probably greatly increase your variance to make these calls than if you simply fold preflop, and the difficultly of playing postflop probably turns these seemingly small +EV calls into -EV situations for me.