checkraise this?

[Lil Ribbit]

ONline 1-2 typical passive

EP limps
Im in the cut off with 65 of spades and I call
Button raised and the BB, limper and I call

Flop comes 7 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif Giving me the nut straight, flush draw and straight flush draw.

Checked around to me and I bet into the pre-flop raiser.
Should I have tried a checkraise here to the pre-flop raiser who just called?

Everyone esle folded and the pre-flop raiser folded on the turn.

Comments?
Thanks

[lil']

Your pre-flop limp is loose. You are getting 2.5 to 1 odds to call at that point. Your position doesn't do enough to make up for the poor odds. The button then punishes you for your looseness. Ouch.

Nice flop though.

My first thought would be to check and call and see if the limper can be strung along for another bet, then raise the turn. They won't suspect you have 6-5, so you can surprise them on the turn.

[Lil Ribbit]

Yes thank you for the post. I agree the weakest part of my game is my pre-flop play. Besides the post flop play thats another reason this site is so usefull

[Bob T.]

Your opponents didn't have anything. It was going to be hard to extract anything from them. If they did, for instance, if the button had an overpair, then I like your bet, he would have raised, then you could smoothcall, and checkraise the turn, trapping any callers for an extra big bet.

You could have also checked, hoping that he would autobet, but then when you checkraise, you really serve notice that you have a big hand, and you will probably kill any action on later streets. When you bet, and he just calls, bet again on the next street (as you did), and hope that he is slowplaying his overpair and will raise you. He wasn't, but you probably won as much as you could here.

In what is likely to be a shorthanded pot, I probably wouldn't have limped with 65 suited. I would either muck this, or raise, and try and win the hand with a flop bet. At 1-2 online, I would have mucked, it might be too hard to move my opponents off of anything that resembled a hand.

[dux]

I like the idea of the check/call check/raise on the turn, but another idea is to come out betting like you did on the turn simply because someone with your kind of hand would be inclined to slow down until the turn to put your raises in. You are deceptive in the way you come out and simply bet your hand. This way, you might get the highcards to raise, and with any luck you'll run into a big pair.


But, the more I think about it this is rountine for slowplay, you have the best hand, you are not worried so much about the flush draw because you have it, and somebody like the preflop raiser could easily make a second best hand.

[rayrns]

Why is it wrong to call in the CO with a group 5 hand? Did he just need some more callers in front of him? Maybe one of the leaks in my game but I think I would have called also.

[hutz]

The hand groupings are valuable because they help you see, generally, which hands are good starters. They are problematic if you take the approach you appear to be taking, which is to say "I have a group 5 hand so I'm going to play it!" The texture of your game, how many players have already entered the pot, whether the pot has been raised when the action is on you, whether you think there will be a raise after you, whether you think you can steal the blinds if you open raise, etc., are all considerations when you make your decision whether to play or muck. In the case described above, with only one limper to me in the cutoff, I'd have folded 65s without a second thought. I hope this helps.

[bernie]

i dont tend to go for c/r too much when im in the CO. why? you only have one player to count on to bet for you. so you better be damn sure he will bet.

given the action, i dont think youd have gotten much more out of it. you play some hands just arent going to pay much at times. who knows, next time everyone may call.

OR maybe your betting standards are too tight and they put you on a made hand and would rather call a looser player. that's a possibility. your bet here could/should be many types of hands. something to watch for. it may or may not pertain to this hand. but if the table had a history of calling the flop, yet folded here, may be worth looking into.

i would bet here hoping the preraiser would raise, getting some coldcallers so then i can 3 bet.

b

[Girchuck]

Would you call on the button with two limpers ahead of you?

[Homer]

Preflop - Your limp is a bit loose with only one limper before you. You want more multiway action to play a hand like 65s.

Flop - Your hand is a monster. You have the nuts with a redraw to a flush. I would check to the preflop raisor and hope for him to autobet. Then hopefully the two players in between will call and you can checkraise. If you bet into the preflop raisor he will likely raise since he raised preflop (a lot of players will raise here even with just overcards) and you will force your opponents to call two bets cold, which you don't want.

Turn - If the button three-bets the flop (after you checkraise), he is almost certainly on an overpair (or less likely, but still possible, a big flush draw). In this case, checkraise the turn. He will bet when checked to, even if he is on the flush draw (very few players can resist betting even after having raised for a free card). If he just calls your flop checkraise, bet the turn when checked to.

Comments - With your hand you want to build a big pot, not do anything you can to take it down right away. You have the nut straight with a redraw to a flush, which is a very powerful hand. Use the preflop raisor to trap the field for multiple bets.

-- Homer

[Homer]

I would call on the button with two limpers in front of me in a loose-passive game. That's about my minimum entry point with that hand. In a loose-aggressive game I might fold on the button after two limpers.

-- Homer

[Girchuck]

I should have your discipline.
When I start steaming, I'll even call it UTG or in SB against a raise

[Homer]

Eeeek. Yeah, that's not too good. You should probably turn off the computer, grab a beer and watch some TV when that starts to happen.

-- Homer

[bernie]

"If you bet into the preflop raisor he will likely raise since he raised preflop (a lot of players will raise here even with just overcards) and you will force your opponents to call two bets cold, which you don't want"

i dont totally agree here. this hand is vulnerable. it's far from a lock. and if you get players calling lots of bets, the chances go up that your against a higher flush draw. not to mention if someone happens to have a set or 2 pair. id be more than glad to make them call 2 cold, which they would if they didnt jam it.

i learned this the hard way when i flopped a nut str8 with the nut flush draw. and lost. yes, i charged the max, but it really showed just how vulnerable you can be.

when checking here you only have 1 player behind you to count on betting, you better be sure he'll bet. especially on the turn if you try it there. you dont really have position for this move. though it may work.

many ways to play this hand. you could also wait til the turn hoping someone would bet before you so you could jack it. though id likely bet the flop here instead of waiting. id love to get in a raise war on the flop here.

b