4/8 kill questionable river fold

This is a kill pot in a 4/8 kill game that has been bothering me.

SB posts 8 for kill pot
BB posts 4
Hero is UTG+2 with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Preflop:
UTG calls 8
Hero calls 8
CO calls 8
SB checks
BB folds (pot: 4.5sb)

Reads:
SB is Loose-Passive
UTG just sat and hasn't done anything wrong so far
CO is Loose-Aggressive

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB bets (8)
UTG folds
Hero raises (16)
CO calls (16)
SB calls (8) (pot: 10.5sb)

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks
Hero checks
CO bets (16)
SB calls (16)
Hero calls (16) (pot: 8.25bb)

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks
Hero checks
CO bets (16)
SB calls
Hero folds (pot: 10.25bb)

Thoughts?

[csuf_gambler]

what in the hell?

bet turn

bet river

[fullhouse]

[ QUOTE ]

bet turn

bet river

[/ QUOTE ]

[jskills]

I hate this so much.

Why no bet on the turn after you take charge on the flop? There is nothing that says we don't have the best hand here. If you were beaten by a flopped flush, would you have gotten 3-bet on the flop?

CO (betting) and SB (calling) are just living up to your reads of them.

Please explain your thoughts behind folding. What range of hands do you put your opponents on?

[Fishwhenican]

CSUF is right.
You have no idea where you are at in this hand by check calling the turn.
No one has shown any real strength when they didn't re-raise your flop raise.
If nothing else check-raise the turn
If you really think you are behind to a flush, fold the turn but just calling is bad.

[Fishwhenican]

[ QUOTE ]
Please explain your thoughts behind folding. What range of hands do you put your opponents on?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lemme guess, he figured he was behind to a possible slow played flush and was waiting for the board to pair so he could get then with a boat. Boat didn't come so he folds the river.

[Wingnut]

I wanna know what BB had (getting 9-to-1 and closing the action).

[callydrias]

Why do you hate money so much?

This post should be retitled, "4/8 questionable decision to sit down and play at all"

Thanks for the honesty. I was positive that I screwed this one up, and the explanations make perfect sense.

Results below in white:

<font color="white"> The CO showed down 2c 2s for bottom set. SB mucked his hand. I'm worried that I only cared about this hand BECAUSE I would have won. If one of them was slowplaying the flush, I think I pat myself on the back for making the right read. Does anybody have any idea of how to avoid such results oriented thinking?</font>

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the honesty. I was positive that I screwed this one up, and the explanations make perfect sense.

Results below in white:

<font color="white"> The CO showed down 2c 2s for bottom set. SB mucked his hand. I'm worried that I only cared about this hand BECAUSE I would have won. If one of them was slowplaying the flush, I think I pat myself on the back for making the right read. Does anybody have any idea of how to avoid such results oriented thinking?</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing with the fear that you are behind just because you fear, without any real evidence at all, that someone else has the nuts, is a surefire way to consistently lose. Yes, occasionally you will lose this hand - perhaps, if you are betting properly, even to someone who has a small flush and is afraid to bet *that* because they fear someoen has a big flush. But a great percentage of the time, your hand is the winner. Don't fear the worst every time.

[Easy E]

I would have check-raised the turn to give myself a better idea whether they were slowplaying the flush.

I definately would not have dumped the river for 1 bet.

[bernie]

#1 Wrong forum

#2 Nice read of the players though might be a little off. No biggie.

#3 Ignoring your reads and misplaying the turn, terrible fold. How did you not end up in the can with your head stuck in the toilet watching your stomach come out? Even I lost a little bile reading the river action. Nobody's hand is defined at all. You checked the turn to a LAG who bets being last to act. Yeah, he must have you beat....C'mon. He's the one guy, if anyone, that you want active in this hand.

b

[jskills]

Think of the odds of someone flopping a flush. It's something that you can almost never just "put" someone on.

If you flop a set, you need to be extremely aggressive unless the turn brings a four card of the same suit. Then you need to see the river and hope that one of your 13 outs comes in to pair the board for you.

I really thought this was a joke, I could see if there was two other guys going to war on the flop u might wannna get away but heads up and he showed no signs of anything plus its only one more bet on a freakin kill!.....man o man u have mid set for god sakes

[ QUOTE ]
I really thought this was a joke, I could see if there was two other guys going to war on the flop u might wannna get away but heads up and he showed no signs of anything plus its only one more bet on a freakin kill!.....man o man u have mid set for god sakes

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you see this kind of play all the time at lower limits B&amp;M. Hell, I have gotten called - not raised - on the river and seen the other person turn over the absolute nuts several times at 5/10.

I've read the stickies on the forums, but must have missed it. Which forum should I have posted this in?

[Fishwhenican]

Small Stakes (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem)

[Fishwhenican]

How to avoid results oriented thinking?
Just keep saying this to yourself over and over:
"Results don't matter"
"Results don't matter"
"Results don't matter"
If you start closing your eyes and rocking back and forth in your chair while you are doing this it is even better because then everyone at the table will think you are nuts!

Seriously though, the results of one hand alone do not matter, AS LONG AS YOU PLAYED IT CORRECTLY! You have to look longer term and keep playing correctly. When you have a hand be aggressive and if it costs you an extra bet or two here or there it's OK as long as you use the information gathered to put you farther ahead in the long run.

I know it's hard to NOT get results oriented for individual hands. It's natural but you just keep chanting:
"Results do not matter"

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
How to avoid results oriented thinking?
Just keep saying this to yourself over and over:
"Results don't matter"
"Results don't matter"
"Results don't matter"
If you start closing your eyes and rocking back and forth in your chair while you are doing this it is even better because then everyone at the table will think you are nuts!

Seriously though, the results of one hand alone do not matter, AS LONG AS YOU PLAYED IT CORRECTLY! You have to look longer term and keep playing correctly. When you have a hand be aggressive and if it costs you an extra bet or two here or there it's OK as long as you use the information gathered to put you farther ahead in the long run.

I know it's hard to NOT get results oriented for individual hands. It's natural but you just keep chanting:
"Results do not matter"

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you implying that he played it correctly?

[Fishwhenican]

No, sorry.
Was referring to his post where he had the results of the hand and was worried about how to not to be so results oriented.
I stated in my previous posts that he should have played it much differently.

I was trying to get the point across that results do not matter as long as you play the hand correctly but that at least in this case he hadn't played the hand correctly.

Ironically, the results in this hand were most likely important because they point out exactly why the play was bad.

[AngusThermopyle]

Ok. Guess I missed your earlier comments. I agree with you.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a kill pot in a 4/8 kill game that has been bothering me.

SB posts 8 for kill pot
BB posts 4
Hero is UTG+2 with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Preflop:
UTG calls 8
Hero calls 8
CO calls 8
SB checks
BB folds (pot: 4.5sb)

Reads:
SB is Loose-Passive
UTG just sat and hasn't done anything wrong so far
CO is Loose-Aggressive

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB bets (8)
UTG folds
Hero raises (16)
CO calls (16)
SB calls (8) (pot: 10.5sb)

Turn: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks
Hero checks
CO bets (16)
SB calls (16)
Hero calls (16) (pot: 8.25bb)

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB checks
Hero checks
CO bets (16)
SB calls
Hero folds (pot: 10.25bb)

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why did you not bet the turn? Why did you not bet the river? I hate how you played this hand.

[siccjay]

This is an awful awful fold.