Interesting hand against solid player

[QTip]

There are several angles I think are interesting in this hand. However, before we get started with some of it, I want to see what peope think I have here on the turn.

MP2 is solid player and behind me is donks.

Edit: I'm going to be out for a few hours, so I'm going to make the discussions I wanted to have as separate replies

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with ??
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (11.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

[lautzutao]

KQs or QQ-TT, but I think you're betting that turn to represent AK.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
KQs or QQ-TT, but I think you're betting that turn to represent AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just called the turn.

[SlantNGo]

I cold-call this pre-flop then fold the flop (since the pot will no longer be offering good odds to continue). My reasons for cold-calling:

1. A raise in MP2 is probably a decently strong hand. With AQ, I fold here but with AQs I have drawing strength in a multi-way pot (this is assuming that BB and limper will call at the very least).

2. A good flop for me is either top pair, or a flush draw + 2 overs. On both those flops I would like to raise MP2's bet to face the field with 2 cold.

EDIT: What the, you changed your post while I was replying... well, my comments apply to what you posted the first time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gharp]

EDIT: OK, you edited your post, so what I wrote no longer applies. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[QTip]

I suck and wanted to see if anyone thought my hand was fairly obvious given the way I played it. I posted it first on accident.

A /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Given that...what do you think of my play?

[QTip]

After the 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif fell, villain checked and I bet. You like?

Villain had red Jacks. Do you like how villain played those?

How would you have played the river if you were villain?

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
After the 6 fell, villain checked and I bet. You like?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Are you calling a c/r?

[ QUOTE ]
How would you have played the river if you were villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you would call the turn with that didn't have JJ beaten. I'd probably c/f.

[car ramrod]

I would say you either have AQs or QQ. The flop call is a little weak if you have AQs. MP2 is solid, so he is raising/capping pf with AK, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, maybe TT.
On the flop I would say if you have QQ, a call is ok, if you have AQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, I would peel.

The turn, looks like the A didn't scare you too much. I'm guessing you don't have QQ, unless ofcouse you have a /images/graemlins/heart.gif. So, now I say AQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. A call is probably best, we don't want to be 3 bet here.

River, not sure what I would do other than call. A raise does nothing for us, he won't call with his QQ, or JJ. He may 3 bet AK+.

I can't see you having any other hand besides AQs.

[2+2 wannabe]

why the 3-bet pre-flop?

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
After the 6/images/graemlins/club.gif fell, villain checked and I bet. You like?

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on how solid the villain is. I think a really good player is either folding or check/raising here. If you think he'll call with a lower PP (say J/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, for example) then you should bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Villain had red Jacks. Do you like how villain played those?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he played it OK, but should've folded the river after you bet if he knew you were a good player too.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that...what do you think of my play?

[/ QUOTE ]

well, I got the hand right (and I didn't see you post it before it was edited).

I like you play, the flop is close, but I'd call. On the turn I don't know if we are wa or wb. I guess call is all you can do, I hate this spot. Would you have called the river if he lead? My point is, the only hand he can have here is JJ that I think he may continue betting that we beat.

[deception5]

Man I thought I was losing my mind there when you were editing... (why do I keep thinking he has AQ here?) /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think you are drawing pretty thin on the flop, basically hoping you are against JJ/AQs/TT/AQ here. And AQ/TT are somewhat wishful thinking... But with the size of the pot a peel is probably ok, particularly with .5 outs for the double gutshot and 1.5 for the bdfd (meaning you need 1 out for your aces and queens).

Nice turn!

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. Are you calling a c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd assume no, but would like to hear your thoughts Qtip

[deception5]

Flop looks like more of a clear call than I thought:

AA(3) - 2 outs
KK(3) - about 1.5 outs, occasionally lose to fh
AK(9) - 2 outs

QQ(3) - .25 bdsd less likely, 1.5 bdfd, 3 aces = 4.75 outs

JJ(6) - .25 bdsd less likely, 1.5 bdfd, 3 aces, 3 queens = 7.75 outs


3*2 = 6
3*1.5 = 4.5
9*2 = 18
3*4.75 = 14.25
6*7.75 = 46.5

=~ 99/24 = around 4 outs on average

[lautzutao]

My bad dude, I thought you were MP2 and were posting hero's hand...yeah, you posted AQs up above...what did HE have?

[VoraciousReader]

I guess great minds think alike...but not quite the same...I had him on QQ with the queen of hearts. (AQs second choice.) You win.

[car ramrod]

I though QQ on the flop, then the turn had to be AQs.
but I still win. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GrunchCan]

I think preflop sucks.

[McGahee]

Heh, AQ was going to be my guess.
If villian is decent and on the aggressive side and the rest of the table is donks, I think everyone needs to open up his range of hands.
If mean, if hero had coldcalled everyone would say "3-bet or fold". So he 3-bet and everyone's amazed by it.

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I generally cold-call with AQs as a matter of course, but my reasoning isn't better than "uh that's what SSHE told me to do." Is it really that much worse to make it 3, and force the villain to clarify if he truly has a premium hand?

PS: He did, and I think I fold this flop; we're dominated by AKs, drawing dead to KK and behind JJ, QQ and AA, and even if our A outs are safe to him a heart may complete a flush draw. Our only safe out is the backdoor flush.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow Grunch /images/graemlins/shocked.gif - you're gonna have to explain yourself more than this. this is mostly standard for me, but maybe i'm just a LAG /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought preflop was standard.

[GrunchCan]

Ha ha, people don't like that one bit eh?

Against what you describe as a solid player, playing AQs for TP strength is dangerous. I might call 2 cold to encourage multiway action, becase AQs is decent multiway. But if "solid" means that he is raising a hand that you will either be a big dog to or a moderate favorite to, then I'm looking for a better spot to go HU with.

Fold or call. That's what I do.

Alright, let's hear it gang...

[istewart]

I think this is a fairly standard 3-bet. I really don't like cold-calling here that much.

[GrunchCan]

What do you hope to accomplish with your 3-bet?

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Against what you describe as a solid player, playing AQs for TP strength is dangerous. I might call 2 cold to encourage multiway action, becase AQs is decent multiway. But if "solid" means that he is raising a hand that you will either be a big dog to or a moderate favorite to, then I'm looking for a better spot to go HU with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't want the button cold calling behind me and I'd like to shut out BB if I can.

A solid player raising from MP2 has a range that you do pretty well against with AQ. You also have position. If he raised in EP folding would be a reasonable option.

Edit: If UTG+1 is bad enough and MP3/button are tight enough this could easily be an isolation raise.

[istewart]

If Villain is truly aggressive he could easily just be isolating the UTG limper (read on him not provided so I won't make assumptions about him). He could be raising 77+, ATs+, ATo+, KJo+, KJs+ which makes AQs look pretty favorable. It would be great to get this hand heads-up as well, in position, with UTG's dead money in the pot (however likely this is to happen I don't know), but either way AQs looks good here.

Also this pot doesn't look to be multiway and our position for flopping/extracting with draws is not good. Another benefit of 3-betting is that we get some more information about Villain's hand. Postflop without the initiative here can be pretty tricky.

[GrunchCan]

Well, I can concede to the forum on this.

My no-limit playing may effect my thinking on this hand. I just hate the idea of playing a big heads-up pot with a moderate holding. However, I can remember from my limit days putting a third bet in here.

[istewart]

Lol, I was just going to say you've been playing too much NL grunch.

Limit &gt; NL.

[Shillx]

His river check/call really sucks. You are betting anything better and checking the garbage behind. He should check and fold imo. There are no hands that you could "bluff" here as you either have a pair of aces and will bet or TT/99 and will check. The only good reason for him to check here is to see if you check QQ behind. At the same time, a good case can be made for betting to see if you lay that same hand down.

Anyway this turn sucks, but you have to raise it if you want to play on. You are either drawing dead and will get told so by MP2's 3-bet or you want to put the screws to UTG+1 who might be lingering with a hand that is weak but dangerous to a top pair hand (somehing like 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif). You are clearly going to invest 2 bets in this pot, and the place to do it is on the turn.

Brad

Edit: His river check/call might not be so bad. What is more interesting is your river bet after he checks. I would pretty much have to assume (if I played the hand) that he is either going for a check/raise or has given up and will fold. Therefore betting on the end with AQ is pointless since all worse hands fold and all better hands raise. If the villian is thinking the same thing, he should check and call since you will be betting TT and 99 with the hope of folding out better hands. It makes no sense for him to check/raise in that spot since you won't call it with a worse hand, but a call figures to have some value there.

This is part of the reason why I hate limit poker. Hands become so tough to analyze since you can come up with a logical explanation for all kinds of different lines. What do we think of the river bet here?

Brad

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
My no-limit playing may effect my thinking on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played some no limit, and I'm pretty sure that is what is going on here. Heck, I get people limping AK, but I don't know if they should be.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
My no-limit playing may effect my thinking on this hand. I just hate the idea of playing a big heads-up pot with a moderate holding. However, I can remember from my limit days putting a third bet in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, I was thinking this might be because of no-limit.

This probably explains why I suck at NL btw /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway this turn sucks, but you have to raise it if you want to play on. You are either drawing dead and will get told so by MP2's 3-bet or you want to put the screws to UTG+1 who might be lingering with a hand that is weak but dangerous to a top pair hand (somehing like 7 6 ). You are clearly going to invest 2 bets in this pot, and the place to do it is on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a call is ok for the following reasons.
1. you are not sure where you are, so you could raise to find out, but then you have to fold to a 3 bet, which means he could make a play at you.

2. UTG1 may be dangerous, or he may just be a donk, but he is padding the pot for you to just call.

3. If he has say JJ, he will fold the turn to our raise, by calling the turn he may bet again, or check/call like he did.

I mean calling sucks, but I think I like it here.
thoughts?

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Limit &gt; NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, you know what they say in the NL forums, don't you?

[Eeegah]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I can concede to the forum on this.

My no-limit playing may effect my thinking on this hand. I just hate the idea of playing a big heads-up pot with a moderate holding. However, I can remember from my limit days putting a third bet in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if your thinking is clouded then to an extent so is Miller's, as AQs is one of the three hands SSHE advocates a cold call with. With that authority it can't be that bad /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

My reasoning for 3-betting is illustrated perfectly by this hand. It's an informational raise, a rationale that I know isn't too well liked here at least postflop but works well for us here. Most solid players I know will cap strictly JJ-AA and AKs (I cap AKo but am probably wrong to do so, and that's not really relevant here). If they just call my 3-bet, then I have a good idea what to do if an A or Q falls: I'm crushing AJ, KQ, TT, KJs, all that sort of stuff and all I have to worry about is AKo. If he caps, then I know that top pair isn't going to help me out here, and I'll need to shoot higher if I'm gonna have a chance of winning this.

3-betting this preflop makes postflop infinitely easier IMO. Maybe not as easy to play as 22, but certainly easier than flopping an A and having to fall into a WA/WB line. Again, there may be a good counterargument against this, and if you have one I'd love to hear it.

Just to clarify, I was actually the villain in this hand and I did not check call this river. I check folded the river. Q tip only knew that I had red jacks because we spoke about the hand afterwards.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a call is ok for the following reasons.
1. you are not sure where you are, so you could raise to find out, but then you have to fold to a 3 bet, which means he could make a play at you.

2. UTG1 may be dangerous, or he may just be a donk, but he is padding the pot for you to just call.

3. If he has say JJ, he will fold the turn to our raise, by calling the turn he may bet again, or check/call like he did.

I mean calling sucks, but I think I like it here.
thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking along the same lines, but Shillx made some good points.

1.) If he 3-bets you on the turn you have a pretty good idea where you are. He capped preflop and you called the flop and raised the turn. He can't profitably 3-bet here with anything you beat if he is a decent player. What range could he put you on here that a bluff would ever be successful?

2. On a less scary board I would agree, but the third heart does mean that 20% of the time you will lose this pot to any heart. It's worth it to try and knock out UTG+1 if he has a weak heart here, especially in this gigantic pot. I missed this when I first evaluated the hand, but this is in my opinion a great point in Shillx's post. UTG+1 won't fold a flush on the river for 1 bet even if it's the 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

3. The pot is large enough that we don't mind taking it down now. We really shouldn't expect any more bets from QQ/JJ here. They may make a crying call, but they'd be making a mistake to do so on a AK 2 heart board against a pf 3-bettor.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking along the same lines, but Shillx made some good points.

1.) If he 3-bets you on the turn you have a pretty good idea where you are. He capped preflop and you called the flop and raised the turn. He can't profitably 3-bet here with anything you beat if he is a decent player. What range could he put you on here that a bluff would ever be successful?

2. On a less scary board I would agree, but the third heart does mean that 20% of the time you will lose this pot to any heart. It's worth it to try and knock out UTG+1 if he has a weak heart here, especially in this gigantic pot. I missed this when I first evaluated the hand, but this is in my opinion a great point in Shillx's post. UTG+1 won't fold a flush on the river for 1 bet even if it's the 2 .

3. The pot is large enough that we don't mind taking it down now. We really shouldn't expect any more bets from QQ/JJ here. They may make a crying call, but they'd be making a mistake to do so on a AK 2 heart board against a pf 3-bettor.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes those are good points. I will admit one of my biggest problems is convincing myself that villian is making a play at me, so maybe this is why I call to avoid the dreaded 3 bet where I have to fold.

I guess the pot is probably big enough to try and win it on the turn, and getting utg1 may have more merit than I thought originally.

Damn Shillx and his damn poker knowlege. Thanks for pointing that out

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: His river check/call might not be so bad. What is more interesting is your river bet after he checks. I would pretty much have to assume (if I played the hand) that he is either going for a check/raise or has given up and will fold. Therefore betting on the end with AQ is pointless since all worse hands fold and all better hands raise. If the villian is thinking the same thing, he should check and call since you will be betting TT and 99 with the hope of folding out better hands. It makes no sense for him to check/raise in that spot since you won't call it with a worse hand, but a call figures to have some value there.


[/ QUOTE ]

I check folded here because I couldn't see Q flat calling this flop with 10s or 9s. After the turn call I was confident there were no hands left I could beat.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I will admit one of my biggest problems is convincing myself that villian is making a play at me, so maybe this is why I call to avoid the dreaded 3 bet where I have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is without a doubt my biggest weakness as well /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SlantNGo]

I think all 3 choices are very close here, and depending on the texture of the table and my read on the raiser, I could see myself picking any of them.

If the BB is likely to come along, and possibly one more, I like a cold-call here for the reasons I wrote in my first reply. Reasons to 3-bet or fold are pretty straightforward.

[ QUOTE ]
I think preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

[QTip]

Great thoughts. FWIW, on the turn, the EP player was horrible....I think in the 70s and may not have even folded 23o.

[Shillx]

I check folded here because I couldn't see Q flat calling this flop with 10s or 9s. After the turn call I was confident there were no hands left I could beat.

I don't get it. What else would he do with these hands on the flop? TT and 99 with a /images/graemlins/heart.gif are almost surely worth a call on this flop if we can expect to only pay one bet. Rasing here is totally reckless as we are almost never good here and it is going to cost us at least 2 BB to get you to fold QQ or JJ (at the minimum we would have to bet the turn since the pot is so big that he is calling the flop raise with anything that has a shot). Even if you do end up folding those, we will oftentimes be losing to someone else with just 2 wins in the deck.

Brad

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Great thoughts. FWIW, on the turn, the EP player was horrible....I think in the 70s and may not have even folded 23o.


[/ QUOTE ]

knowing that, and having him pad the pot, do you like the call on the turn, or do you agree with Shillx that you should raise the turn? Or Shillx, now that you know, do you still think its a raise?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Great thoughts. FWIW, on the turn, the EP player was horrible....I think in the 70s and may not have even folded 23o.


[/ QUOTE ]

knowing that, and having him pad the pot, do you like the call on the turn, or do you agree with Shillx that you should raise the turn? Or Shillx, now that you know, do you still think its a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Having him pad the pot is pointless when he could very well be drawing live. Let's say that you raise AJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, get an awful coldcaller and then get 3-bet by a very good player in the blinds. The flop is....

A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

If the blind bets, you should just call here and hope that the awful coldcaller pads the pot for those times that you run into AK or AQ or AA. Notice that the awful player is almost always drawing super thin but will chase dubious backdoor draws for one bet. This is a good time to let someone pad the pot. The OP's hand isn't. Why?

1) We will not get 3-bet by a worse hand. We can be pretty sure that the capper does not have AQ, so we don't have to worry much about folding a hand that we are chopping with. He will not be 3-betting with Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif since we very well could be playing something like AK this way.

If he 3-bets us, we are dead to AK/AA/KK and we have zero outs against those three hands.

2) There are lots of hands that will call the raise. Any underpair with a /images/graemlins/heart.gif is calling, and we get good value from those hands by raising.

3) If hands like TT and JJ with no /images/graemlins/heart.gif will fold to a turn raise or check/fold the river UI if we just call, we NEED to raise the turn. Either way they aren't putting another bet into the pot, but by raising we deny them that 5% chance that they have to outdraw us. If those hands will put bets in on the river UI it is a different story, but a good player will commonly give up when called on 4th. Don't give him a free shot at 2 outs.

Brad

[ QUOTE ]

I don't get it. What else would he do with these hands on the flop? TT and 99 with a /images/graemlins/heart.gif are almost surely worth a call on this flop if we can expect to only pay one bet. Rasing here is totally reckless as we are almost never good here and it is going to cost us at least 2 BB to get you to fold QQ or JJ (at the minimum we would have to bet the turn since the pot is so big that he is calling the flop raise with anything that has a shot). Even if you do end up folding those, we will oftentimes be losing to someone else with just 2 wins in the deck.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well how many outs are red 10s or 9s worth on this flop? 2 and a half? Even if a heart turns, there's a good chance that I have one of the 3 bigger hearts. So 10s or 9s call hoping to turn a set? I don't think a backdoor one card flush draw to a 10 high flush is worth much here.

I don't know. The pot is very big but there are also 2 other players in the pot on the flop.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Having him pad the pot is pointless when he could very well be drawing live. Let's say that you raise AJ , get an awful coldcaller and then get 3-bet by a very good player in the blinds. The flop is....

A 7 7

If the blind bets, you should just call here and hope that the awful coldcaller pads the pot for those times that you run into AK or AQ or AA. Notice that the awful player is almost always drawing super thin but will chase dubious backdoor draws for one bet. This is a good time to let someone pad the pot. The OP's hand isn't. Why?

1) We will not get 3-bet by a worse hand. We can be pretty sure that the capper does not have AQ, so we don't have to worry much about folding a hand that we are chopping with. He will not be 3-betting with Q Q since we very well could be playing something like AK this way.

If he 3-bets us, we are dead to AK/AA/KK and we have zero outs against those three hands.

2) There are lots of hands that will call the raise. Any underpair with a is calling, and we get good value from those hands by raising.

3) If hands like TT and JJ with no will fold to a turn raise or check/fold the river UI if we just call, we NEED to raise the turn. Either way they aren't putting another bet into the pot, but by raising we deny them that 5% chance that they have to outdraw us. If those hands will put bets in on the river UI it is a different story, but a good player will commonly give up when called on 4th. Don't give him a free shot at 2 outs.


[/ QUOTE ]

good post, I have to leave work now, but I hope to get a chance to read it more thoroughly and respond when I get home.

[thejameser]

nice value bet on the river.

[Catt]

Not a lot of comment on the flop. The flop call is very thin when you're not closing the action. If either of the two guys behind you is capable of check-raising, the flop call is bad. Even without the prospect of getting check-raised, the flop call is iffy given that any A or Q hearts (Edit: of BDSD outs) are dirty (either flush or redraw to flush).

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
Having him pad the pot is pointless when he could very well be drawing live. Let's say that you raise AJ , get an awful coldcaller and then get 3-bet by a very good player in the blinds. The flop is....

A 7 7

If the blind bets, you should just call here and hope that the awful coldcaller pads the pot for those times that you run into AK or AQ or AA. Notice that the awful player is almost always drawing super thin but will chase dubious backdoor draws for one bet. This is a good time to let someone pad the pot. The OP's hand isn't. Why?

1) We will not get 3-bet by a worse hand. We can be pretty sure that the capper does not have AQ, so we don't have to worry much about folding a hand that we are chopping with. He will not be 3-betting with Q Q since we very well could be playing something like AK this way.

If he 3-bets us, we are dead to AK/AA/KK and we have zero outs against those three hands.

2) There are lots of hands that will call the raise. Any underpair with a is calling, and we get good value from those hands by raising.

3) If hands like TT and JJ with no will fold to a turn raise or check/fold the river UI if we just call, we NEED to raise the turn. Either way they aren't putting another bet into the pot, but by raising we deny them that 5% chance that they have to outdraw us. If those hands will put bets in on the river UI it is a different story, but a good player will commonly give up when called on 4th. Don't give him a free shot at 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the example you gave is a better spot to have someone padding the pot than this one.

But, I think of this hand as a wa/wb, so I dont want to raise here and have villian fold his JJ's or QQ's. I agree that getting utg1 out will help increase our chances of winning, just not sure on how often he hits a two pair or a 1 card flush to beat our hand vs having him calling thin.

I think I may just be trying to make an excuse to not raising so I don't get 3 bet, I hate that. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pyedog]

Without looking at any of the replies, I think the only hands that you could have when you just call on the turn are TT, JJ and QQ with one heart.

You figured you couldn't be ahead on the flop with a K on board after the solid player capped preflop but you had almost 20:1 odds to try to hit a set. Then you picked up a flush draw on the turn.

I don't think you could be slowplaying KK or AK here due to the flush draw that hits on the turn and you couldn't have a made flush due to the K and A being on board.

[pyedog]

Didn't consider AQs with a BDFD on the flop. I guess that's about 2.5 outs so that's a reasonable call getting almost 20:1. Damn that was a tough hand to read actually, especially after you just called on the turn. Makes sense considering his hand range I guess.