What makes for a good table?

People talk about how table selection is a key to being a winning poker table - but I am curious to hear different opinions on what makes a "good table".

What factors do you look at?

Lets say you have a table with 4 fish and 4 excellent players - is this a good table?

What about % to the flop? Where I play, the % to the flop ranges as such

.25/.50 - 55%-65%
.50/1 - 35%-50%
1/2 - 30%-40%

I haven't gone higher than that, but I assume that it trends similarly down, but at smaller increments.

How many hands do you feel you have to play before you get a sense of a table? I have heard estimates ranging from 20-50 - but I think it is true that you can often assess a lot of information in a shorter amount of time - its generally easier to spot a poor player than it is to spot a good player.

Is having 1 truly awful player at your table enough to compensate for several good players?

[TripleH68]

1) Players cold calling raises preflop.
2) Players that like to play fit-or-fold.
3) Getting a seat with good position on certain players.

hey hank,

rafer alston's biggest fan here.

i like these kind of threads (as opposed to the "did i play this Q8 properly??", when the obvious question is why are you playing that garbage.

i think pre-flop % is the biggest variable we have. i find 50%-60% is very easy to make $$$$$. i somewhat cringe when i see the 30%-35% pre-flop partially because i can't be too much further below that myself (bearing in mind that almost always you get in free from big blind and half price from small blind. ed miller says play any suited hand from small blind unraised. i think he advocates that from button too, but not sure.)

the other poster made an excellent point, people cold-calling raises is such a great attribute. and i have to agree totally, and sklansky and his crew (miller) are so big on respecting raises. i have to agree. great fish characteristic.

at full table, i wouldn't worry about the good players. just as long as you have enough bad players. but no, i don't think one bad player will make it.

playing shorthanded, you have to worry about good players. i barely even like one at my table. basically raises alot when he plays and folds a heck of alot. i hear all these guys at work talking all this sophisticated stuff, but it seems to me they haven't even mastered playing tight yet.

the poster also mentioned "fit and fold" players as good thing at table. as opposed to folding on flop yes, but i'd much rather have calling stations chasing some draw that won't even win.

#1 fish characteristic i've won $$$$$ from at bricks'n'mortar casino is people playing any Ax and thinking they're winning. if i play, A5 out of big blind for free, i sometimes barely even care if an ace falls.

hank, i'm thinking of buying king yao's book at amazon.ca. sounds like it's different than most others and has great shorthanded section. i have at least 5 twoplustwo books, all of which i like but i need to learn more about shorthanded.

also, was thinking of going to raptors training camp (st. catherines again???) and hitting casino niagara (or U.S. competitor at night)

hank, good news is that the preflop % decline levels off pretty fast i.e. 5-10 games are pretty weak too.. i understand (don't know from experience) that you have to get to 20/40 to get very tight/aggressive games and even there still quite profitable for a very good player (i wish i was one).

but playing 3-6, 4-8 and 5-10 on full tables, i've found it very easy. but i've generally given my bankroll back shorthanded and no-limit cash games (sometimes i didn't even know it was no-limit when i joined the game). insufficient bankroll for shorthanded and no-limit. probably need 500 BB's to play 5 man short-handed and playing 2-4 person table, you might need 1000 BB's (seriously).

i am going to be joining either party, empire or pacific poker pretty soon (supposed to be very soft games and lots of them). probably purchase poker tracker too.