Two hands of KK i played

Played a £1000 buyin NLHE tournament last week, which had 192 runners. started with 10k stack and blinds 25-50 - Thomas Kremser was the tournament referee so you could say it was well run(once it got started that is).

we were upto the 4th level (200-400 blinds), and i`d not shown any hands down yet because id bluffed off a few small pots and stole a few blinds, then this hand came up.

UTG i raise to 1600 with KK, UTG+2 (who was a loose player from wot ive seen on tv) raises allin for 7k and UTG+5 (who was a tight player from wot id seen on the night)re-raises allin for 15k. I had 14k. Wot happened - or wot do u think should have happened?

The next hand i had 20k and blinds were at 400-800. UTG limps, pass,pass,pass - i raise to 3200 with KK everyone passes to the UTG limper who makes it 10k to go. wot happened again - or wot do u think shoulda happened?

Cheers,

Tommy

[Superfluous Man]

1. Call and double up.
2. (Oops, actually, jam over the top) and double up.

well here is what i think could have happend.

first hand:
the loose guy raising all in dosent really mean much seen as his loose,his hand could be anything from AA-88 AK-AT and seen as he is on low stack its very possible that he could have the lower range of hands.

the tight player making it 15000K id different story,he is tight but he knows that the other guy is loose so with a hand like AA-JJ AK-AQ he could have made this move.
also he could have made this move purely so isolate you from the hand and gets heads up with the loose guy.
from his hand range the only thing that has you beat is AA.and thats unlikely cuz if he had AA maybe he would just call hoping that you will call as well and then push on the flop.
so based on this i think you should have called.

in the 1st hand the loose guy had JJ and the tight plyr QQ. the pocket kings would have held up - had i called!

In the 2nd pot i passed them again! so who knows what he had.

This was my 1st case of playing a tournament this high, and to be honest id been playing very aggressively before both these hands came up! Wot im saying is i set it up so it looked like i was stealing again - but then passed!!???

Crazy hey? But at least i know i wont be doing that again.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
in the 1st hand the loose guy had JJ and the tight plyr QQ. the pocket kings would have held up - had i called!

In the 2nd pot i passed them again! so who knows what he had.

This was my 1st case of playing a tournament this high, and to be honest id been playing very aggressively before both these hands came up! Wot im saying is i set it up so it looked like i was stealing again - but then passed!!???

Crazy hey? But at least i know i wont be doing that again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, if you play KK to look like you're stealing, then fold when someone plays back, you're sabotaging yourself.

Besides, don't fold KK. Just don't.

[diebitter]

Call and win both.

Regularly folding KK pre-flop is usually a pretty huge leak.

[sdplayerb]

i muck the first one.
if you call the best case scenario is like AK and QQ. Just becomes very likely one of them, particularly the final pusher has AA. If he didn't think much about it, he has AA. He'd have to think some on any other hand.

i'd need more info on the guy in the 2nd one. i'd also need to know his chip stack. also how many tables are left.
With only 25x the bb going into the hand, and now only 21 left, I am going all the way with this one. Not thrilled about it, but he could have a wider range here with smaller stacks.

SD

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
Played a £1000 buyin NLHE tournament last week, which had 192 runners. started with 10k stack and blinds 25-50 - Thomas Kremser was the tournament referee so you could say it was well run(once it got started that is).

we were upto the 4th level (200-400 blinds), and i`d not shown any hands down yet because id bluffed off a few small pots and stole a few blinds, then this hand came up.

UTG i raise to 1600 with KK, UTG+2 (who was a loose player from wot ive seen on tv) raises allin for 7k and UTG+5 (who was a tight player from wot id seen on the night)re-raises allin for 15k. I had 14k. Wot happened - or wot do u think should have happened?

The next hand i had 20k and blinds were at 400-800. UTG limps, pass,pass,pass - i raise to 3200 with KK everyone passes to the UTG limper who makes it 10k to go. wot happened again - or wot do u think shoulda happened?

Cheers,

Tommy

[/ QUOTE ]

In both cases you easily push all your money in. Hand 1, easy call, hand 2 easy push.

That's "wot" should have happened.

edit: Oh yeah, and insert the mandatory (true) referance to HoH where he says it's not worth trying to make a great read to lay down KK because you're going to be wrong too often to make it worth it. Haven't read HoH, but I've seen that enough times on here to have memorized it.

If you had called the first time, you would have trippled up (or something like that) and could hav more easily made the second call. That's also something you have to consider. But yeah, no way I'm ever folding KK in those situations. If you run into AA it happens, and you leave, but you can't play scared of monsters under the bed.

Oh yeah, to the OP- Why are you using the spelling of "what" as "wot". I dont think the English spell this word wrong too, or are you trying to emphasize the accent. At first I thought it was a typo, but you are conssitant with it?

[sdplayerb]

I think his push was terrible with QQ. At best I flat call there.
You also had not stated you were playing aggressive until this post. You need to do a better job of giving details.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]


from ANY hand range the only thing that has you beat is AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my first FYP.
In both these hand all your money is going in and it's a huge mistake otherwise.

[Roman]

if he could fold out KK, I love the push.

[nuclear500]

You folded Kings? Twice? /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I hope to dear god you had an incredible read that was just simply wrong.

[illegit]

Anytime it goes raise, re-raise, re-raise AI from a very TIGHT player (which you said he was) you can fear aces pretty reasonably. However, you were wrong if you thought this player was extremely tight cause it went raise, re-raise and he pushed w/ QQ. Probably need to work on your reads and stop giving players so much credit.

If you never folded KK PF you'd be better off than trying to figure out the times that you're beat.

Hand 1 is the only one where the action made AA look quite likely though. Hand 2: put all your chips in the center without hesitation. A limp re-raise is often AA, but not enough times to muck KK every time someone does it to you.

[sdplayerb]

how could he possibly know that?
sure, if he knew that it is good.

[Kevin West]

First you say he should fold KK to that action, then you say that the push is terrible even though if he's playing against you (or someone who wants to fold KK there), he will get them to fold a better hand? Seems a bit contridictory to me.

[JJJ88]

[ QUOTE ]
Regularly folding KK pre-flop is usually a pretty huge leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your percentage of folding KK preflop?
My percentage = 0%. I never fold KK preflop.
Is that a big leak?

[Exitonly]

no, it's probably in your best interest to just never fold KK preflop. Except in the late stages of a satelite.

[sdplayerb]

not contradictory.
1. he doesn't know you have KK, you could just as easily have AA
2. he doesn't know you will fold KK
3. he doesn't know the other pusher doesn't have KK or AA.

a good % of people won't ever fold KK. i am not sure what that % is. even if it is or 75%, that doesn't mean it is incorrect to fold KK.