AKo TPTK HU- slow play? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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smokylosecannon

09-15-2005, 06:42 AM

UTG+1 is TAG based on 71 hands. Floped TPTK, I'm only behind AA,KK. He bets on flop and I flat call, intending raise on turn. J hits on river, then he checks to me. Your play?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero ?

gh9801

09-15-2005, 06:54 AM

Bet/call. If he check raises, I'm sorry JJ probably rivered you

Petteri

09-15-2005, 07:01 AM

If UTG+1 is solid player, his probable hand range after turn is really narrow: AA, AK, QQ, JJ. He would have re-raised turn if he had KK or TT.

I think you should not value raise(bet-fold) here. You are behind AA and JJ. You tie with AK and win only QQ. Check behind. Except to see AK.

thesharpie

09-15-2005, 07:11 AM

I wait until the river to raise.

smokylosecannon

09-15-2005, 02:49 PM

Yes, I got rivered... again... Not the first time, and this won't be the last.... I guess. Thanks for advice.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Jh Js (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero has Kd Ac (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 13.75 BB.

W. Deranged

09-15-2005, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wait until the river to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I often like this line in a heads-up pot, particularly against thinking opponents. It is best against players who are alert enough to fold to turn raises but is not a good idea against weak/passive types who will tend to check the river a lot even with good hands. It's great to do in live games for metagame reasons, as it gets in the same number of bets as raising the turn much of the time but keeps opponents off-balance.

sy_or_bust

09-15-2005, 02:54 PM

Don't call that raise. You can narrow his range down so much, that the only legitimate worse hand he can be playing at the river is QQ, which would be a suicide bluff based on the board and your hand range.

Waiting until the river to raise is a nice idea also, and probably best. I wouldn't raise the river on this board though.

W. Deranged

09-15-2005, 03:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't call that raise. You can narrow his range down so much, that the only legitimate worse hand he can be playing at the river is QQ, which would be a suicide bluff based on the board and your hand range.

Waiting until the river to raise is a nice idea also, and probably best. I wouldn't raise the river on this board though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a "standard" TAG I agree that we can find a fold here to the river check-raise.

It would be really sick though if he were check-raising this river with QQ, or, even better, with AK. That would be totally sexy...

peterchi

09-15-2005, 03:11 PM

I like your flop and turn a lot (although as others have said, raising the river is a viable line too).

On the river, I'd only bet this if we know we can fold to a c/r. AQ is unlikely but not unthinkable, as is JJ.

So if he's at all tricky, I'd check behind. Otherwise I'm gonna go with bet/fold.

And really, the only way we get a value-bet here is if villain refuses to lay down QQ. I think that's about it, right?

Bodhi

09-15-2005, 04:35 PM

Raise the flop. I think you know that it's bad to slowplay here, and I think you know why.

Bet/call the river, of course.

Bodhi

09-15-2005, 04:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I wait until the river to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason why I don't like this line is because you have no idea where you're at once you raise the river. Then, do you fold to a 3-bet? It seems to have the weakness of winning an extra bet when ahead, but losing 2 when behind.

I play this fast from the flop on, but the villain is a sucker to call the turn raise.

smokylosecannon

09-15-2005, 05:24 PM

Here are my reasons for my action--

Pre-flop: standard

Flop: I floped TPTK on HU. I am behind AA,KK but ahead of QQ,JJ and tie w/ AK. Now UTG+1 capped pre-flop and he is the first one to act after the flop. Most player bets out in this situation regardless of their hole card. QQ,JJ could be best hand right now. I can raise, but it is HU against TAG who I can expect action on turn and river, but probably fold on turn if I raise on flop. Yes, raiseing on flop give me better information as to where I stand on this hand, but trying to win extra 1BB here is not bad move IMO.

Turn: I raise, and he calls. I was going to fold on raise, but I did not see aggression and he took a while to call my raise.

River: J hits and check to me. I thought for a while, but bets out since he could have QQ. I should probably fold to raise... though...