The 6785th "I'm going to play poker for a living" thread [LONG]

For the last year I have often thought, "If I had more time to devote to serious play and study of the game, I could easily play online poker for a living." Well, yesterday I quit my job. This was no starry-eyed poker scheme, my boss of 4 years questioned my integrity so I resigned.

Now I have all the time in the world, and I get to find out whether I was fooling myself, or if I have the intelligence, patience and discipline to be a professional poker player. It is a frightening and exhilarating feeling.

A little background. I consider myself an above-average player, like everyone else I suppose. I have been a consistent, if modest, winner playing Sit-n-Go tourneys and small no-limit cash games on Party. I have had a few large cashes in MTTs, and have done quite well in live cash games. I have taken poker somehat seriously, but not nearly as seriously as many of the posters on these forums. It was a hobby to me and I treated it as such. I own all the right books and understand most of the concepts in each, but I have never undertaken a serious, in-depth study of poker theory. My understanding has been wide but not deep.

Well, now I am actively trying to expand my knowlege of every facet of the game. I have been re-reading SSHE, and plan on attacking the small stakes tables soon. I will be re-reading TOP after that.

Above and beyond this, does anyone have any specific advice on where to start? What are the softest games? The softest times? Should I focus on small stakes hold-em until I build my bankroll or should I throw in some STTs? I am looking for any advice to help me squeeze every last dollar I can out of the game. Your responses are appreciated.

TMA

[ace_in_the_hole]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Calm before the storm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
I consider myself an above-average player

[/ QUOTE ]

As you noted, everyone considersw themselves an above average player. But even if you are above average, that is nowhere near good enough. You need to be in the top 8 percent of poker players to be good enough to even beat the online game long term. (I'm not pulling that number out of my ass, thats the percentage of people online this past year who finished in the positive). To be able to make enough money to make a living, I'd say you need to be in the top one percent. It is strongly encouraged that you find another job, and continue playing poker as a hobby.

[Cerril]

This is the default reply, and almost always the correct one. It's not at all difficult to be in the top 1% of all players when you figure that 'all players' includes a vast number of recreational players who don't even care if they're winners, and a whole lot more whose knowledge of the game is all from play and none from study. Still, if you can swing a job and poker as a part time thing, that's preferable for most people.

However, if you've got a good savings, have a good winrate over a lot of hands, and won't be inconvenienced by going without an alternate income for 3 months, 6 months, or whatever (i.e. it won't be harder to find another job; you have both an ample bankroll and plenty of money to live on), there's no reason not to take a shot and at least prove one way or another that you could or couldn't do it full-time.

[Ray Of Light]

For the last year I have often thought, "If I had more time to devote to serious play and study of the game, I could easily play online poker for a living." ... so I am guessing that you haven't quite reached the stage yet where you could honestly make a living from poker.

Also, from the numerous questions that you pose at the end of your post, it sounds as if you haven't planned for your poker career.

Don't play poker for a living as a knee jerk reaction to quitting your job.

Normally, whenever someone decides to play poker for a living and posts about it, I am all for it. I mean your only live once, why spend the rest of you life going 'what if'.

But you seem to me, to be poorly prepared.

If you have savings, a bankroll, and you've consistanly won over a long period, then by all means go for. Otherwise, err on the side of caution for now, and look for some work... even a part-time position.

[ggbman]

My advice is to keep your job until you can make a similar amount playing poker, then go pro. If you keep working on your game, soon it can be an excellent imcome source, but you are jumping into this too fast.

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
My advice is to keep your job until you can make a similar amount playing poker, then go pro. If you keep working on your game, soon it can be an excellent imcome source, but you are jumping into this too fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is more to the equation than just income. I can make approx. 5 times what I make at my new job if I played poker full time (and my job is one of the best you can get out of college)... but I take the job because:

a) variation of daily/weekly/monthly/yearly job requirements and tasks;
b) development of a rich, useful skillset;
c) exposure to interesting people and ideas;
d) the potential to comfortably make as much as NBA basketball players by the time I'm 35, and maintain that multi-million dollar income for the rest of my life.

An office job is waaaaaay less intense on an hour-per-hour basis than playing poker professionally. And guess what? I can still squeeze in 5 or 10 hours of cards in my spare time.

[ QUOTE ]
...I have taken poker somehat seriously, but not nearly as seriously as many of the posters on these forums. It was a hobby to me and I treated it as such. I own all the right books and understand most of the concepts in each, but I have never undertaken a serious, in-depth study of poker theory. My understanding has been wide but not deep...

[/ QUOTE ]

D A N G E R, Will Robinson, D A N G E R

First of all, thanks for the responses.

"You need to be in the top 8 percent of poker players to be good enough to even beat the online game long term. (I'm not pulling that number out of my ass, thats the percentage of people online this past year who finished in the positive)."

I've been playing for more than 2 years, and, my first few months of horrible play notwithstanding, I have been a winner over thousands of hands. I am in the money over 40 percent of the time in Sit-n-Gos, and show a consistent profit. So I guess, I already am in that 8 percent. All of this while not taking the game as seriously as I could, occasionally playing drunk, etc. I'm a smart guy. I have a good head for numbers and the ability to work hard. With a little extra reading and a lot of extra hands, I think this is doable.

TMA

"Also, from the numerous questions that you pose at the end of your post, it sounds as if you haven't planned for your poker career."

This is true. I just quit my job yesterday, so I am still fleshing out all the details, wondering if it is possible. I do intend to look for another job (probably part-time) within the next month or so.

I have heard that small stakes limit games are the softest, the easiest to crush as an expert player. I hope to be an expert player sooner rather than later and am trying to take steps in the right direction. Any advice is appreciated.

TMA

[yanicehand]

Good luck with the venture, at least you won't be a 9-5 worker with no stories to tell your WHOLE life (you may go back). I'd just like to throw in one bit of advice that my friends who have gone pro have passed on to me. When asked what its like to make a 6 figure income playing a game, they always say with the most dire of looks on their face : "Its _ NEVER _ as easy as you think."

[Willluck]

good luck, get rakeback.

[dogmeat]

For the 6785th time - who cares?

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

thanks for the advice, that will help a lot

And the winner is.......


[ QUOTE ]
For the 6785th time - who cares?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Greg J]

Just to give you a useful and handy resource on this topic, I would read the last few issues of 2+2 i'net magazine. There is a lot of talk about this topic. Link upper left (duh).

But yeah, most of the other guys are on the right track. Poker is a great side hobby to make money. I would not be able to do this for a living, for several reasons. That is not to say that you can't, but most people can't.

[Justin A]

Make sure you start at very very small stakes. I hope you have money saved up to live for a while, because you can't rely on making money right from the start. If you have money saved up, start at .50/1.00, and play there until you get a good grasp of the game and can beat it, then move up when you have a good sized bankroll for the next level. Rinse and repeat, and if you work hard at it you can beat 5/10 in a few months or so. Good luck.

I am a total newbie, but if you are planning on going pro you probably need to go higher than the small stakes limit games if you want to make a decent living and support yourself. If you don't have a sufficient bankroll and can only play those games at this time than like those posters above me I advise you to pad your bankroll more before you make the move, but hey I'm a newb /images/graemlins/smile.gif Good luck!

[EStreet20]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a total newbie, but if you are planning on going pro you probably need to go higher than the small stakes limit games if you want to make a decent living and support yourself. If you don't have a sufficient bankroll and can only play those games at this time than like those posters above me I advise you to pad your bankroll more before you make the move, but hey I'm a newb Good luck!



[/ QUOTE ]

This advice is flawed. The beauty of the online game is the speed and multitabling aspects. Thus many (a relative term obviously) people support themselves off winning/rakeback playing primarily at the 3/6 level. However you definitely do need some advice. Read Ed Miller's articles on Going pro in the 2+2 internet magazine. He sheds a lot of lights on how you must think moneywise, plus how much "start up cash" is required. It really paints a picture of how daunting a task starting/maintaining a pro career is. Good luck either way but don't rule out getting another job and playing poker part time. Miller talk about that idea too.

Take care,
Matt

[lozen]

Here's what I can offer from someone considering it but not ready yet.

Evenings Best time to play
Great Book to read Professional Poker The Essential Guide to playing for a living" by Mark Blade Great advice in here
Also Small stakes Hold Em by Ed Miller

You left out a lot of info to get some honest advice
How old you are? Single? How large your bankroll is
How many hands you have played
Personally I think your not ready but if you hated your job so much Give it go.

[dogmeat]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the advice, that will help a lot

[/ QUOTE ]

You want advice? Learn to read the players better than you apparently read this forum. The topic has been discussed to death, you are not unique. Want more advice, learn to actually play the game well - just as you might learn to use the forum well by using the fkn SEARCH function. Want more advice? Don't let a bunch of faceless blips on a web forum make your decisions for you.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[wildzer0]

I'll say good luck, but I'd like to point out that you can only learn so much in a short period of time. All the theoretical knowledge in the world can only take you so far if you don't have equivelant experience at the tables. Going from a modest winner at small stakes to big enough winner to support yourself full time is very unlikely to happen in the time you need it to if you don't have sufficient savings. No matter how much you immerse yourself.

Good luck

some oneliners:
- get rackeback
- get bonuses
- start small (low limit- one table)
- learn, practise, fail,
recover ,learn, practise, fail, recover,
learn, practise, succeed!(hope it for you)
- also hope you can afford to lose money the first like 4 months, depends on how quick you learn.
- succes /images/graemlins/grin.gif