Marginal holding but am I missing bets?

[silkyslim]

PF raiser is unknown, turn donkbettor is loose passive. I wanted to bet the flop when it got checked around, but I was afraid of someone planning a c/r or randoms calling 1 bet with a weak 8 or 9. Should I have bet out because I might be best? My turn raise is questionable because the player was passive, but I thought he was just taking a shot because it got checked thru and the board paired ( a favorite for fishies to do). Or he might have been betting a 3 which I am ahead of. I would have folded if there was a caller in between, but I thought I could fold out pf raiser and thwart fishes bluff attempts. On the other hand, he might have been betting an 8, which I am behind and I wouldnt get him to fold it.. Should I have value bet river? I had 4th pair and there was 3 to a str8 and 3 clubs on board. Dont assume that I won or lost when you consider the value bet plz.



Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls.

River: (9.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

[TheHammer24]

I think your first mistake was checking the flop. If you have any intention of winning the pot I think you start right here and fold to the c/r.

As played, I don't know if I like the turn raise. If villian is bluffing you want him to conitnue, but at the same time you want to protect your hand. The raise isn't awful, but like I said betting the flop changes everything.

The river is the worst card that could have come. But bet folding is better then checking through.

[Nick C]

I think I would bet the flop, based on the idea that there's a good chance I currently have the best hand. However, even if my hand is best, there's a good chance I have a lot of cards to dodge twice, so I'm not really counting on having all that much of an edge here. But the pot isn't empty, there aren't a whole lot of "safe" turn cards to hope for anyway, and maybe my bet will get someone to fold outs that he shouldn't.

When MP1 bet into four players on the turn, I would probably just fold. Or I might talk myself into calling, but I do think your raise is probably better than a call. If you're best, you would like to drive out BB's overcards.

On the river, should you bet, hoping for 55 or A3? I'm not sure. I do think Villain is more likely to have been betting an 8 on the turn than a 3. A hand like JT can't be completely ruled out, either. And it's possible he's hoping to checkraise with trips. So I would probably check behind. But it's possible bet-folding would be better.

[imported_AlphaGun]

I agree that betting the flop and folding to a c/r is probably a better play first of all.

However I slightly disagree with this,
[ QUOTE ]
If villian is bluffing you want him to conitnue, but at the same time you want to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ].

If we decide to continue in this hand because there is some decent money in the pot from the raise pre-flop, we should raise this turn. If villain is bluffing he/she still probably has overcards to our pair and we need to protect. In addition we want to drive out BB who raised pre-flop and most likely has overcards as well.

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that betting the flop and folding to a c/r is probably a better play first of all.

However I slightly disagree with this,
[ QUOTE ]
If villian is bluffing you want him to conitnue, but at the same time you want to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ].

If we decide to continue in this hand because there is some decent money in the pot from the raise pre-flop, we should raise this turn. If villain is bluffing he/she still probably has overcards to our pair and we need to protect. In addition we want to drive out BB who raised pre-flop and most likely has overcards as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I like my turn raise better than calling, and i dont like folding especially given that I can fold out both TAGs and my read on the bettor. I just read the section on defending against semi-bluffs in TOP, and it made sense. I just think I should have raised the flop. My river check seems fine. I might even fold to a gaybet on the river, anyone disagree?

a gaybet is definitely scarier than a donkbet.

[ep510]

Bet the flop.

Given that you checked, I like the turn raise. River check seems fine unless you think villian will call you here with a 3, 22, 44-66, or A high. If you do bet, you can easily fold to a raise.

[thesharpie]

I like the turn raise and river check. I think I'd fold the river to a gaybet, semibluffing hands just got there.

Edit: Didn't notice the read on the gaybettor being loose passive, I just fold the turn, but like has already been said, bet the flop.