Is it normal to always feel quite nervous before a game

Hi, new poster here. For some reason I always feel quite nervous or anxious before I get into a game. It's weird that I"m feeling this way, despite the fact I've been playing and studying the game for quite some time - playing regularly for about 5 to 6 months. I took a break and just started playing again. The last three days, almost three days straight, I've done incredibly well. I've gone to the same casino, the busiest one in my city where there's always 10 to 12 tables playing. Anyways my first day I bought in for 65$ at a 4/8 table and left after about 4 hours with 170$. A day or two later I bought in for about the same amount at the same kind of game and left with 275$. And just last night I bought in for 170$ and left with 350$. So what's there to still be nervous about, it doesn't seem like a fluke and I've had varying degrees of sucess in the past.

It's like somehow I have the builtin mindset that it's not going to last, even though every game I play the same way that's been sucessful for me. That is I'm a tight player who play selectively agressive. When I've sensed weakness I've semibluffed and won more than a few pots. I don't usually completely bluff, I know when to fold, most of the pots I win are when I have the best hand. I can also play loose but only when I feel it's a decent hand my opponents won't put me on and only when the pot odds and odds of improving my hand make it worth playing.

I'd also like to add I'm not worried about my opponents getting a read on me. I'm currently reading a book called Beyond Tells and I've watched the video Mike Caro made based on his book of tells. Besides that I can be pretty expressionless when I want to be, I switch up my styles frequently going from tight to loose to agressive and back, and I try my best to act the same way whether I'm betting with a good hand or playing a draw or semibluffing.

My first impression is to ask what your poker bankroll is. If you are playing with money that would hurt you if you lost it, that would explain your nervousness.

I found that this was the case when I first started playing in live games - I would go in with $60, but if I lost it, it would mean that I would have to forego something I wanted (most usually, it was pot). So I was always nervous about losing.

I contrast that with more recently, when I was in Vegas and had salted away a few hundred dollars to gamble with - it had no impact on my life if I lost it - and I played much more comfortably.

To answer your question I'm 21 and as pathetic as this may sound I've been living with my parents for awhile, my dad in fact who I'm also working for. Before that I lived in residence and shared a house with a bunch of friends. I've never had to pay bills before, mostly cause I've never wanted or bothered to get a car, a cellphone, or anything else I'd have to be financially commited to. The point is all the money I'm playing with is spending money, my dad buys the groceries and in return for working for him I don't have to pay rent.

What I'm trying to do is build up a proper bankrolls for the game I'm playing, 4/8 so I need a 400$ bankroll which I'm almost at. I've been playing everyday just about, and that's my goal to make poker playing a day to day second job - eventually fulltime job. I want to quit my other job, but I want to get to 15/30 before I do that, for which I'd need a 1500$ bankroll.

I guess the real fear is losing that bankroll and being back at where I started. Maybe the fear comes of out a problem with selfconfidence or maybe my previous losses are still very much in my head. My losses are in the past, I don't let them effect my game, but I can't forget about them either.

[pyedog]

Your bankroll requirements are quite a bit on the small side if you want to ensure a reasonable chance of not going bust (assuming you're a winning player of course). The standard requirement for limit is a 300 BB bankroll. That would be $2400 for 4/8 or $9000 for 15/30. Granted that sounds a like a lot to get started, but it will significantly lower the chance of you losing it all due to a bad run.

Since you've started off well at 4/8 you can hopefully get by with a smaller initial investment but I think you should definitely delay moving up in stakes until you work your way up to close to 300 BBs at the next level up (when the competition will also toughen).

Your probably right, but I thought it was 100 BBs. I think I'm too conservative to go bust at a 4/8. I'd probably play even more conservative at a 15/30 game. It's nolimit where I have a better chance of busting out, it's seems I play alot smarter at limit. At no limit it's way too easy to say "allin" one time too many.

[pyedog]

[ QUOTE ]
Your probably right, but I thought it was 100 BBs. I think I'm too conservative to go bust at a 4/8. I'd probably play even more conservative at a 15/30 game. It's nolimit where I have a better chance of busting out, it's seems I play alot smarter at limit.

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Chances are that you're on a high right now because of your initial success and underestimating your chances of having a losing session, even at 4/8. Limit is a really swingy game no matter how conservative you play or how bad your opponents are.

Anyways, the 300BB recommendation means 300 big bets, not big blinds. Your initial estimate was for only a 50 big bet bankroll, which is only two buy ins. I've been winning at a pretty solid rate in the casino, but my last visit to 5/10 I lost 30 BBs which would be almost your entire estimated bankroll.

If you want some idea about the swings then I reccommend that you try multitabling 4 micro stakes limit games for a few hours and you'll see that there are some tables where you win 20 or more BBs and others where you go bust. If you think of each of those as a separate session with varying degrees of luck then you'll see why you need to have a solid bankroll to deal with the swings.

I'm not sure if this is all too basic for you but my advice is to take it slow and once you can build a $2K+ bankroll for 4/8 you should start feeling more comfortable with the swings. You're not a real poker player until you recover from your first real bad spell.

[vexvelour]

FYI: BB usually means big blind in these forums. You should specify "big bet" next time.

When I said BBs I meant bigblind, I don't know if that's the correct meaning or not. 100 times the big blind makes me comfortable, I'm used to going in with a little more than the buyin and usually having sucess despite such a small bankroll. Yeah, I'm not an experienced B&M player but I have had downswings, so I know what it's like to have a losing session. But I also read about the game everyday and play as much as I can, so I believe I've become quite a bit better since my last losing session. Whenever I had a losing session I'd obsess over it, going over and over all the mistakes I made and how I should have played differently.

I don't like to rely on luck, very rarely do I chase cards unless the odds are in my favor. Also I find weakness is one the easiest things for me to read in this game. I will capitalize when I think a player is weak, not with a bluff but usually a good hand or good draw with outs. The players at 4/8 seem to make the same mistakes over and over, even without reading their faces, body language, or voices I can sometimes put them on a draw and bet them off the draw, put them on a medium strength hand and bet them off or win with a better hand, or semibluff I have the besthand. They never seem to reraise and if they do I don't feel potcommited, I look at the situation and cut my losses. It's not always that way, I've lost some pots too by being called on a bluff
or being outdrawn, but the pots I've won by being selectively agressive have more than made up for it. I take pride in my tight style and folding ability, so I usually minimize my losses.

Also, I guess I've been lucky not to play againt any very agressive players, most of the players at the tables I've played have been smart, conservative, and tight. The loose players usually bust out or dwindle themselves down to a more conservative style.

[Aytumious]

Plain and simple your BR is too small. You will almost certainly go broke with the amount you are allocating and you are also likely feeling the anxiety about playing since even a moderate downswing would eat into your BR.

Your right, all of you are right. The reason I keep playing is to get a proper BR. I don't make much at my job, I'm mostly working to payoff debts. The only way I can build up a proper bankroll is by playing and hopefully playing well enough to survive any downswings. Also, in online tournaments and sit&go's I've done quite well playing shortstacked, on a more than a few occasions I've gone from being the lowstack to being one of the chipleaders.

BB in context to winrates in Limit is usually Big Bets, winrates in NL are BB = Big Blinds. If you hear BB in the context of preflop play/position, it is Big Blind.

[jzpiano14]

"I'm mostly working to payoff debts"

Maybe this is why you are nervous, because you are in debt and the money you are playing poker with if you should lose it you might feel could be spent paying off your debt. just my .02

[einbert]

If you are a competitive person, being nervous before any kind of competition can be normal.

You can't really *get rid* of your nervousness--it is a mental factor that you will have to deal with. As something becomes more routine, you can learn to work through your nervousness so it doesn't affect you adversely. One important step is to realize that nervousness like this is indeed normal, and that you are always going to have to deal with the nervousness--but in spite of these things, you can indeed learn to work through it. Good luck.

With a $400 bankroll, the absolute highest limits you should be playing are $1/$2 - and even that is a stretch. A good ratio is 300X the big bet - so for 4/8 you should have $2400.

I know that others have pointed this out, but this simply cannot be overstated. I have read your posts and you are clearly rationalizing - but it won't work. Eventually, you will go on a MAJOR downswing - it has happened to pretty much everyone on this board no matter how good they are - it has nothing to do with skill - it will just happen that you will hit a run of bad cards - and when that happens, if you are not sufficiently bankrolled, you WILL lose all your money - and it will be compounded by the fact that you will be constantly nervous about losing your bankroll.

Your entire approach is terrible - you should NOT be playing poker to pay off debts - you should be working to pay off your debts and playing poker to build up a bankroll.

Here is my suggestion.

1) drop your limits - if you can't find a B&M place that has a 1-2 game, then just play online.

2) take a percentage of each of your paychecks from your job and use it to pay off your debts - say, 10% - every single paycheck. IF you want, take a MUCH smaller percentage and add it to your bankroll - perhaps 2% of each paycheck - but only do this AFTER you have paid the 10% to your debt.

What I am wondering is that, given all you have said, how is it that you have any debt at all? You live with your parents, you said you never bought any "big ticket" items - so what did you spend your money on?

[pyedog]

[ QUOTE ]
What I am wondering is that, given all you have said, how is it that you have any debt at all? You live with your parents, you said you never bought any "big ticket" items - so what did you spend your money on?

[/ QUOTE ]

He said earlier that he used to live in residence so maybe he means paying off debts from school.

I enjoy playing poker and I consider myself pretty good at it but I definitely wouldn't want to rely on my winnings to try to pay off debts. When you're getting started I would advise playing primarily for fun and hoping to win a bit of extra spending money. Then when you gain experience maybe you could start to rely on poker as an extra income to help pay off debts. Just don't expect the earnings to be consistent, some weeks you will lose and go more in debt. But if you instead consider your bankroll as more of a challenge rather than expected income, then losing some of it won't be as devastating.

[bernie]

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FYI: BB usually means big blind in these forums. You should specify "big bet" next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

During a hand history, yes. When in reference to Big Bets bankroll-wise, something like 300bbs is very common and accepted on these boards and has been for quite some time.

b

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
FYI: BB usually means big blind in these forums. You should specify "big bet" next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB always means big bets when discussing bankroll.

Limit BR is discussed in terms of BBs and NL in terms of Buy Ins

What's the confusion?

[Python49]

I stopped reading after hearing your bankroll was $400.

[sandsmarc]

I know you think you are in control and you, unlike everyone else, are immune to a 100-200 bet downswing. You are smart and conservative and fairly tight. 100+ bet downswings happen to aggressive and loose players. Right? Right?

Wrong. Your bankroll is TOO SHORT. If you keep playing at 4-8 with $400-$800, you are definitely going to bust and you are going to have the Mike McDermott look on your face, the one where Teddy KGB tables AA.

Just hope your father still has the truck...

[noggindoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing and studying the game for quite some time - playing regularly for about 5 to 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[DarrenX]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a competitive person, being nervous before any kind of competition can be normal.

You can't really *get rid* of your nervousness--it is a mental factor that you will have to deal with. As something becomes more routine, you can learn to work through your nervousness so it doesn't affect you adversely. One important step is to realize that nervousness like this is indeed normal, and that you are always going to have to deal with the nervousness--but in spite of these things, you can indeed learn to work through it. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally it's a rush to me. In poker, but also in volleyball, where I'll get the 'butterflies in my stomach' feeling every tournament I play when I step on the court even though I've been playing for 16 years- reminds me I'm alive.

My advice- feed off of it, and enjoy... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

In the following post, BB refers to big bets.

In response to the OP, $65 is a REALLY small buy-in for 4-8. That's 8 BB. When you're playing with a buy-in that small (I'm surprised it was even allowed; the minimum at the tables I play at is 10BB), you will not be playing optimally because you don't want to end up down. You will miss out on a lot of good opportunities while waiting for that first big hand to put you in the plus.

If it feels different to you if you put $65, $80, $160, or $240 in play at $4-$8, then you are playing scared with a small BR. What I would suggest is dedicate a seprate amount of money specifically to playing poker. Do not spend this money on anything but poker and tipping the dealers/servers. Don't even spend this money on a meal while you're playing. Get used to a dedicated poker BR. Once you begin to realize that the money you spend on poker cannot be used for luxuries, you will have a much better understanding of Money Management.

"Whenever I had a losing session I'd obsess over it, going over and over all the mistakes I made and how I should have played differently."

While this may seem like it is a good quality at first, it is an understatement of what you need to be doing. It is possible to play terribly during a winning session. I made 47BB in 4 hours last night, and most of my hands were played very poorly. I played much better the day before but made a whopping 0BB over 6 hours.

The correlation between sessional wins and quality of play is non-existent. The faster you understand that and money management techniques, the sooner you will be on the road to a succesful mindset.