Play a set of Cowboys with me ($33)

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2210)
UTG (t775)
MP (t1250)
CO (t640)
Button (t2180)
SB (t945)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, Button calls t150, SB folds.

Flop: (t450) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t700</font>

<font color="blue"> Here's what I'd like to discuss:

1) What are your thoughts with my check on this board? Any concerns about a check-behind?

2) What is your interpretation of the small bet by villain?

3) What do you think about the reraise? The pot is laying villain 2:1 odds. Am I pricing him in for anything?

4) This hand is HU. Should I have any concerns about the flush draw? </font>

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
1) What are your thoughts with my check on this board? Any concerns about a check-behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) This is interesting. I usually like just betting out with my strong hands for many reasons. Villains like to call waaay too much on the flop. Sometimes I feel like they just call cont bets with air because they don't wanna be bullied. And sometimes they even have the brains to raise instead of calling, which would be cool here. Continuation bets don't get much respect in my experience. Donks sometimes seem to just call them with air because they don't want to feel bullied or something I guess. A check/raise however pretty much gives away the fact that you're holding a monster or maybe a semibluff or something. You usually don't get any more than villains initial bet, if even that. A continuation bet disguises your hand well, and villains need worse hands to raise your bet with than to call your checkraise.

[ QUOTE ]
2) What is your interpretation of the small bet by villain?

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2) I don't know. Could be a lot of hands in my opinion.

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3) What do you think about the reraise? The pot is laying villain 2:1 odds. Am I pricing him in for anything?

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You mean the raise, not reraise.. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif I think it's good that you raise pretty big. If they feel like calling, they will call. And a big raise looks more like a possible flush draw.

[ QUOTE ]
4) This hand is HU. Should I have any concerns about the flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

4) Not much IMO. I think you should be concerned about getting their chips in the middle. It's just usually easiest to do it on the flop.

[1C5]

^^^ Just a bad beat post. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Not answering your questions at all but was reading the end of HOH2 last nite and there was an example where it asked if you should bet or slowplayb a monster in a situation like this.

Bascially he said it would look more strange a big part of the time if you raise 200 and then check that flop. IE, just by betting normally you have a better chance of getting called which is of course what you want in this hand.

Just something to think about in the future.

Oh, and next time, river quads. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

OK I'll take a shot.

1) I like leading the flop. You raised preflop and are expected to CB so leading doesn't give away your hand, and against one opponent I would bet out 90% of the time no matter what the flop.

2) Since this is a 33 small bet by villain could be anything, AA, crap whatever.

3) Raising to 700 is fine but you could also make a case for many different plays here IMO. Only thing is that the raise may give away your hand which could have been avoided if you had led on the flop.

4) Well I think you know he could have a flush draw but you can't be overly worried about this heads up. The fact that there is a flush draw out there is all the more reason to bet the flop though.

Did I mention I would have bet the flop?

[1C5]

Funny all 3 of us like betting the flop haha.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny all 3 of us like betting the flop haha.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but Scuba has more posts than us three combined, so we're still outnumbered /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a bad beat post. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How is that?

[ QUOTE ]


Not answering your questions at all but was reading the end of HOH2 last nite and there was an example where it asked if you should bet or slowplayb a monster in a situation like this.

Bascially he said it would look more strange a big part of the time if you raise 200 and then check that flop. IE, just by betting normally you have a better chance of getting called which is of course what you want in this hand.

Just something to think about in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my thought is that I want to get some chips in the pot here. If I lead at the pot, against the other monster stack, I think I'm shutting down any calls on this board. If I check, I'm more likely to induce a bluff. Which is what he did. In the end, I want to make sure my laying villain 2:1 pot odds isn't a mistake.


[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and next time, river quads. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bleh... donkeys.

[1C5]

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How is that?



[/ QUOTE ]

Cause I know what he had.

[KingMedicine]

raise pf looks good.
id bet out on flop 300ish.

i dont particularly like the check raise line on the flop in this case for a couple reasons:

1 - there is a flush draw and some inside straight draws out there. button could have 2 hearts or somethign like Q10s, QJs or J10s. i dont want him checking behind, the turn coming the J of hearts and then having to poke out a bet to see where youre at and then have to fold to an all-in.

2 - you checking here looks incredibly suspicious. if you whiffed, you would have taken a stab at it most likely since you raise pf from the bb. your check means either you whiffed and would fold to a bet of 125 on that scary board, or it means that you hit a monster hand. in either case his 125 bet will give him his answer and let him out cheap if you hit your hand.

as for your checkraise on the flop, i like the amount - it give him slightly improper odds to call and to try to hit his flush and you still have a chance to hit your boat - if both happen, you have 4400 chips in level 3.

but i dont like that it got that far - unless this player you know to be horribly donk-y or amazingly tricky (why bother in a 33?), bet out 300.

[pokerlaw]

I also like betting the flop here. You RRed, so leading w/ a bet seems like a good idea. Hopefully villain has AK or AQ and will RR or at least call. I like to bet 2/3rds pot - make it look like a continuation bet w/ JJ or QQ.

villain's small bet seems like a weak attempt to steal the pot since you checked, I see him folding here a large amount of the time to a RR.

Not really concerned about a flush draw - especially since the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif is on the board.

If I do CR, I think the RR is a LITTLE higher than I go, I like to jack it to t550 or so - I want him to call and then I push on the turn. I like a CR here if I have a read that villain will most likely bluff here - as he did. My default, as I said earlier, is to bet though.

interested to hear how the rest of the hand played out...

[45suited]

Unless the villain is someone who can't stop himself from betting anytime someone checks, I'm leading at the pot here. PF raise, ace on the flop, check looks suspicious, yada, yada, yada...

In fact, I like an overbet or pot sized bet here myself. You're prolly not getting action from many hands anyway, maybe if you just make a large value bet, it'll look suspicious to someone.

Plus, if someone is going to chase me with some sort of draw, I want to make my money NOW, on the flop. I really can't see a draw betting after you check here anyway (I know that I wouldn't, anyway.).

[bluefeet]

PF - perfect. Had the raise come from EP or included another limper...maybe a bit more. This is a perfect amount to spark Button's interest and remove SB.

Flop - your check looks a little suspicious to me. Even with a missed underpair (to the Ace), with your assertion PF, you are compelled to lead here (in his mind). I am checking behind here more times than not**.

Personally, I would look to lead a weak "c/b". Far more plausable a villian will accept it as such, and come over the top w/ a strong'ish Ace. Which I'd minraise, looking to jam the turn. [Smooth-calling the flop &amp; c/r'ing or leading the turn is an option. But i'd think a decent player won't forget your PF raise - and play a little more gaurded at the turn].

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Your c/r? I do like the raise amount. You've extracted some chips...there IS a draw on board, take it down now, or look to get paid hansomely by an flush draw or Ace. HOWEVER...

**Regarding his small lead - looks like a very weak effort to test the waters with his Ace. Maybe even a King or mid-PP. Whatever it is it sucks (for him). Certainly not enough to declare any type of stand - and completely unwarranted if he's drawing to the flush.

So...if we read his weak-bet for something other than a flush draw - maybe we just call his weak bet. Hmmmmmm, interesting. Short of a one-sided straight draw, there really isn't a turn card that scares us. So we call.

The question now is what to do on the turn. I think we have to lead. His flop lead was just way to weak for us to reasonably expect him to dump more on the turn. I think we should lead 1/2-3/4 pot here (even w/ a heart, as now WE hold the nut flush draw). He could easily make this call still holding the hands we put him on at the flop.

River? Maybe get cute....."uncle...i give..."/check - raise, what he might feel is his opportunity-now-to-pick-up-this-pot lead

[Nicholasp27]

1) i'm not a fan...i bet the flop here...yes, i'm concerned about check-behind which gives the flush/straight draws a free card
2) he could have ax and since you checked he figures you don't have an ace
3) reraise is fine...but what do u do if another heart or q/j/t come out on the turn after he calls? are you gonna fold after investing 900 into this hand or are you gonna push/call push and go broke if he has flush/straight?...a push could be good here because you've netted 375 chips if he folds and if he calls your push, he made a mistake unless he has aa so you win in the long run

i think "win big pots early" could apply here with a 575 chip pot



i bet out 250ish on flop...
but after you checked, i reraise him all-in

Button limp/call there IMHO puts him on a range of something like Ax, Kxs, QQ+, suited connectors, QTs. Against this range, I hate checking. I bet 250, which offers none of the hands that are behind odds to call, and I think will induce a raise from a pretty good % of that range.

[Raiser]

I don't disagree with others that you should bet the flop. I do disagree with those who say that you are betting the flop because of potential draws though. Hero has monster hand heads up. The only motivation should be how to build the pot so that when you win you win a lot. I think betting out here is the way to do that.

[illegit]

I'd make a continuation bet in this spot and hope to get called or, better, raised. A cont. bet looks very standard, and the button called a raise PF so he might have an A of some kind meaning he's likely not going anywhere on the flop at least. A check looks suspicious and I don't want to see a check-behind here though it wouldn't be disasterous.

[nyc999]

I agree with a flop bet.

To add, I cannot see a single hand the villain would hold that would make me scared of a flush draw (A's on the board and you have the K)

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
1) What are your thoughts with my check on this board? Any concerns about a check-behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop. Reraise all in if he raises.

[ QUOTE ]
2) What is your interpretation of the small bet by villain?

[/ QUOTE ]

My interpretation is that you got very lucky.

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3) What do you think about the reraise? The pot is laying villain 2:1 odds. Am I pricing him in for anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

He would need about 15 outs to win on the next card to make a call correct here. I think the reraise was fine.

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4) This hand is HU. Should I have any concerns about the flush draw?

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Still have some, but less obviously.

[pokerlaw]

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I don't disagree with others that you should bet the flop. I do disagree with those who say that you are betting the flop because of potential draws though.

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I agree w/ this also. As to someone having a heart draw - HERO has the K /images/graemlins/heart.gif and the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif is on the board!!!

The only drawing hands that would be scary are Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif and J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and if villain completely overplayed those hands and got lucky, I just load up another one.

[cha59]

1) What are your thoughts with my check on this board? Any concerns about a check-behind?

I'd make a continuation bet most of the time unless youre pretty sure villian is going to bet when you check.

2) What is your interpretation of the small bet by villain?

A small ace, a flush draw, possibly a K or a bluff. I dont think you can rule out a flush draw just because of the Ah is showing. Some people like suited cards, even when they arent aces.

3) What do you think about the reraise? The pot is laying villain 2:1 odds. Am I pricing him in for anything?

That's the amount I'd usually raise him - his bet plus the total of the pot. I dont think an all in bet would be a bad idea either - I'd just rather try to build the pot here. I think 2:1 is the perfect size to induce mistakes.

4) This hand is HU. Should I have any concerns about the flush draw?

Yes I think there is a chance he has two hearts. It might not be his most likely holding, but its a possibility. If he does have two hearts and hits his flush, you still have a lot of outs for a boat. I guess I'd be more aware of the possibilty of a flush than worried about it.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I also like betting the flop here. You RRed, so leading w/ a bet seems like a good idea. Hopefully villain has AK or AQ and will RR or at least call. I like to bet 2/3rds pot - make it look like a continuation bet w/ JJ or QQ.

villain's small bet seems like a weak attempt to steal the pot since you checked, I see him folding here a large amount of the time to a RR.

Not really concerned about a flush draw - especially since the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif is on the board.

If I do CR, I think the RR is a LITTLE higher than I go, I like to jack it to t550 or so - I want him to call and then I push on the turn. I like a CR here if I have a read that villain will most likely bluff here - as he did. My default, as I said earlier, is to bet though.

interested to hear how the rest of the hand played out...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still not certain of the best approach as I wanted villain to invest some chips into this pot, which I was able to do. That being said, I definately see a lot of merit into leading the flop. I often am not worried about flush draws unless I find some sign to tell me otherwise, his call on my flop raise gave me that impression.

What's interesting about the c/r, particularly if it's not an allin c/r, is the "ego-call." I find that a lot of players can't fold once they've invested some small amount into the pot. In general, that's why I like the c/r here. I never c/r with TPTK, and rarely do I c/r with 2 pair.

Anyway, I definately find some validity that a sub-pot bet here can mean oh so much more, and does disguise my hand better than a c/r.

If you want you can play the rest of the hand with me...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2210)
UTG (t775)
MP (t1250)
CO (t640)
Button (t2180)
SB (t945)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, Button calls t150, SB folds.

Flop: (t450) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t700</font>, Button calls t575.

Turn: (t1850) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="red"> It's your move.... </font>

[bluefeet]

1800+ in the pot, 1300'ish back - i vote push &amp; be done with it.

[illegit]

No brainer push at this point. If he has JhTh, oh wellzors.

[ChuckNorris]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (t1850) Q
It's your move....

[/ QUOTE ]

...and he pushes!

[Scuba Chuck]

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No brainer push at this point. If he has JhTh, oh wellzors.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
^^^ Just a bad beat post. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain showed me J/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

My point of this post was not a bad beat, but to see if I'm playing flops incorrectly. I seem to have a knack for drawing in lesser hands on the flop and turn good hands into crap. Stupid Game.

[illegit]

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No brainer push at this point. If he has JhTh, oh wellzors.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
^^^ Just a bad beat post. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain showed me J/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
ACK. Note villain's extremely donkish tendencies and hope you run into him often, and like the saying goes 'fire up another'.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also like betting the flop here. You RRed, so leading w/ a bet seems like a good idea. Hopefully villain has AK or AQ and will RR or at least call. I like to bet 2/3rds pot - make it look like a continuation bet w/ JJ or QQ.

villain's small bet seems like a weak attempt to steal the pot since you checked, I see him folding here a large amount of the time to a RR.

Not really concerned about a flush draw - especially since the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif is on the board.

If I do CR, I think the RR is a LITTLE higher than I go, I like to jack it to t550 or so - I want him to call and then I push on the turn. I like a CR here if I have a read that villain will most likely bluff here - as he did. My default, as I said earlier, is to bet though.

interested to hear how the rest of the hand played out...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still not certain of the best approach as I wanted villain to invest some chips into this pot, which I was able to do. That being said, I definately see a lot of merit into leading the flop. I often am not worried about flush draws unless I find some sign to tell me otherwise, his call on my flop raise gave me that impression.

What's interesting about the c/r, particularly if it's not an allin c/r, is the "ego-call." I find that a lot of players can't fold once they've invested some small amount into the pot. In general, that's why I like the c/r here. I never c/r with TPTK, and rarely do I c/r with 2 pair.

Anyway, I definately find some validity that a sub-pot bet here can mean oh so much more, and does disguise my hand better than a c/r.

If you want you can play the rest of the hand with me...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2210)
UTG (t775)
MP (t1250)
CO (t640)
Button (t2180)
SB (t945)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, Button calls t150, SB folds.

Flop: (t450) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t125</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t700</font>, Button calls t575.

Turn: (t1850) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
<font color="red"> It's your move.... </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

i push here and damn did he overplay J10o!!!