When your a losing player

[cincy_kid24]

When yu have played cards for a long time, what are the tell-tale signs that yu are a losing player? I have been playing small-stakes holdem for the past three years. I have studied WLLH, SSHE, HFORAP, on this forum, an incredible amount of Cardplayer articles and my own thinking on the game and I have come to the conclusion that I am a losing player no only b/c of possibly none to limited success that I have had but because I havent booked a win at the casino or online over the past several months. When I have the best hand I lose and when I have teh worst hand I lose, I can get lucky and I cant play correctly and win. I have played against the biggest jerks who win my money every time and have no idea how they're doing it and I have played against players who actually know what they're doing and they still take my money but at least they have figured out why. Any semblance of a game I once had has been shattered to death with my impression of the game at the moment which is not very good. It now brings out the worst in me every time I sit down and I beleive now is a good time to quit b/c I cant take any more bad beats or good beats b/c that is all I do at the poker table is get beat.
And it really sucks b/c I do love the game but I am obviously missing something. After studying and reading as much as I have I have come to the conlcusion that all those books are total bullshit, they dont apply to anything. They dont help you be successful they just help you think that you can be successful so you can dump your cash to luckiest s.o.b at the table.
Bad beats over the past two weeks - JJ's, raise, total station calls with a 76o and flops a straight, i pay him off.
1010, raise, total station calls w/ a 52o and flops inside strait draw, makes it on the turn after I went all in and he called without hesitation.
AJo shorthanded, raise, opponent reraises w/ KJo and I call, he hits a running two-pair and screams "YES" as if he did the right thing
KQo, same game, opponent calls w/ K9o and hits the 9 on the turn to knock me out.

The game of poker is [censored] joke. If you think otherwise your just fooling yourself.

[UATrewqaz]

Stop playing it and save your money.

Those are bad beats. They happen to everyone. However, in each case, it appears as though you made a mistake - and you admit as such.

"JJ's, raise, total station calls with a 76o and flops a straight, i pay him off." - well, you know that this was a mistake

"1010, raise, total station calls w/ a 52o and flops inside strait draw, makes it on the turn after I went all in and he called without hesitation." - you went all in with a pair of tens and what was clearly garbage on the flop - why?

"AJo shorthanded, raise, opponent reraises w/ KJo and I call, he hits a running two-pair and screams "YES" as if he did the right thing" - how much worse was his re-raise than your raise?

"KQo, same game, opponent calls w/ K9o and hits the 9 on the turn to knock me out." - you got knocked out with KQo - that is your fault since that is not a particularly strong hand.

From these examples, it appears that you are simply not a strong player - certainly not strong enough to be playing at the levels you appear to be playing at.

YOUR problem seems to be that you thought that having read some books that you were ready for the big time - when, in fact, all those books do is prepare you for the small time - only once you can beat the small stakes should you move up - only once you have built a bankroll and have mastered the basic plays - which, clearly, is not the case yet.

[Reef]

good job not using the r****d word

[cincy_kid24]

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"1010, raise, total station calls w/ a 52o and flops inside strait draw, makes it on the turn after I went all in and he called without hesitation." - you went all in with a pair of tens and what was clearly garbage on the flop - why?


[/ QUOTE ]
i had the best hand and didnt want him to draw out, which he did
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"AJo shorthanded, raise, opponent reraises w/ KJo and I call, he hits a running two-pair and screams "YES" as if he did the right thing" - how much worse was his re-raise than your raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
Your saying my raising w/ the best hand was the wrong play? I dont understand
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"KQo, same game, opponent calls w/ K9o and hits the 9 on the turn to knock me out." - you got knocked out with KQo - that is your fault since that is not a particularly strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I had about 20 - 1 chip deficit after taking the AJ beat, what would yu do w/ KQ?
The more you talk bro the less yu make sense
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"KQo, same game, opponent calls w/ K9o and hits the 9 on the turn to knock me out." - you got knocked out with KQo - that is your fault since that is not a particularly strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
yu mean small stakes holdem, like i originally stated. I have enough bankroll to afford 2-4 and 3-6, you're preaching to teh choir about bankroll management.
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YOUR problem seems to be that you thought that having read some books that you were ready for the big time

[/ QUOTE ]
You should actually read OP b/f responding, 2-4, 3-6 GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD

[cincy_kid24]

Oh and by the way I just got sucked out (again)in a 10+1 sng on Stars
I have AKs against AJ. Im in EP raise 4x, reraised by loose player w/ AJo (we're on the bubble for money)
flop = x J K, turn = J river = x
Please try anfd explain why your so damned special and im the shithead who always takes the beats. You want to call me a weak player fine, but please explain to me why making that play makes me a weak player. Are strong players better at getting lucky?
More than anything I hate how this game has drained my love for cardplaying, it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about regrouping and starting over with a positive mindset, i know for a fact it will be shattered by the complete illusion that is poker. Sickness just complete sickness right now

Great. Another gimmick account.

[ QUOTE ]
When your a losing player

[/ QUOTE ]
Try loosing insted of losing, it goes well with your your.

[Mayhap]

It's not just a river in Egypt.

[Xhad]

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You should actually read OP b/f responding, 2-4, 3-6 GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD

[/ QUOTE ]

While I don't agree with everything Scorpio said, if you think that "I can afford it" is a valid reason to play differently at lower stakes, then either you aren't playing to win or you don't know what you're talking about.

.5/1 is mathematically the same game as 1000/2000.

First of all, you mentioned "going all in" in your hands, which I assumed to mean you were playing NL - perhaps these are tournaments? It wasn't clear.

The point I was trying to make in all my comments was simply that, other than the first situation, none of those seem like particularly bad beats - AJo losing to KJo, KQo losing to K9o - you lost to hands that were only marginally worse than your own hands - and that happens all the time - the first one was a simple case of you betting into someone who didn't know what they were doing - about 80% of the time, you would win in that situation.

The JJ vs. flopped straight - well, you probably knew you were beat as soon as he started betting.

So all I was trying to point out is that these are not particularly bad beats - they are just the nature of the game. No book out there and no amount of experience is going to change the fact that sometimes, the marginally worse hand wins.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and by the way I just got sucked out (again)in a 10+1 sng on Stars
I have AKs against AJ. Im in EP raise 4x, reraised by loose player w/ AJo (we're on the bubble for money)
flop = x J K, turn = J river = x
Please try anfd explain why your so damned special and im the shithead who always takes the beats. You want to call me a weak player fine, but please explain to me why making that play makes me a weak player. Are strong players better at getting lucky?
More than anything I hate how this game has drained my love for cardplaying, it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about regrouping and starting over with a positive mindset, i know for a fact it will be shattered by the complete illusion that is poker. Sickness just complete sickness right now

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are complaining because a marginally worse hand beat you. It happens to everyone.

[cincy_kid24]

3- 6 and cheap, one-table SNG's, sorry

[cincy_kid24]

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Again, you are complaining because a marginally worse hand beat you. It happens to everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are yu telling me w/ a straight face that after reraising w/ a dominated hand (24.7% chance of winning according to Cardplayer.com odds calculator) and then drawing to 2 outs after the flop (9.2% of winning) that my hand was only "slightly" better. I can understand saying that preflop, Aj is a 4 -1 dog, but after the flop? C'mon bro

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Again, you are complaining because a marginally worse hand beat you. It happens to everyone.

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Are yu telling me w/ a straight face that after reraising w/ a dominated hand (24.7% chance of winning according to Cardplayer.com odds calculator) and then drawing to 2 outs after the flop (9.2% of winning) that my hand was only "slightly" better. I can understand saying that preflop, Aj is a 4 -1 dog, but after the flop? C'mon bro

[/ QUOTE ]

AKs is a 3-1 favorite preflop - and from what I am seeing, there was no betting after the flop - so it makes no difference.

Nevertheless, these are not exceptionally long odds. They are just the nature of the game.

I read posts like yours all the time and all I think is that you really don't seem to understand that this is gambling. Your having the better hand before the flop is no guarantee that you are going to win. Using the example here, it only means that you will win 3 out of 4 times - but 1 out of 4 times you WILL LOSE. It isn't just happening to you - it happens to everyone. Perhaps you happen to be getting hit with a lot of bad beats all at once - which can hurt - but that doesn't change the fact that these hands will, in the long run, tend to win.

Its called a downswing and it happens to everyone. If you can't handle the downswing, then you probably shouldn't be gambling.

People play complete garbage at 2-4 & 3-6 limits, so expect bad beats.

I've gone through the same questions in my head. While I can't yet say I'm a consistent/winning player, This is what I came up with and has helped me

1) My mental state. I spend a lot of time in hotels and play after work because its my only entertainment. Problem is I'm exhaused and don't always give full concentration. All I was doing was playing my own cards and when you only play your own cards, the very best you can do is break even.

2) I tilted. We've all taken those beats. There are a lot worse stores too, believe me. Amidst a losing run, whenever i took a beat, i sunk into the "This can't happen to me again" mentality and kept chucking in my chips only never to come back.

3) Game Selection. Some games are VERY tough. if few people see each flop and few pots go unraised preflop, its a tough game. Also, If you think everbody is always bluffing, Leave the table!

4) Review your hand history's a day or two after a session You will discover some problems.

5) Stop playing marginal hands. You want winning hands, not good second best hands.

Another thing is you need to get the visualization of what a winning session/run looks like. Simply put you have to save bets/win extra bets. Look at the win rates people post here. Mostly Single digits for 100 hands.

By simply not calling two river bets out of a hundred hands, you could increases your win rate 2BB/100 hands. Me, I've begun thinking of win rates as I do my golf score. Mostly trying to save strokes and then lick my chops when I get a wide fairway and unprotected green /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hope my own observations & visualization helps...

[Abbaddabba]

In the game of poker, not everyone can be a winning player.

The fact that you've been at it for 3 years now and still cant beat the lower limits must be pretty depressing. The level of play at is pretty damn low, so i figure you must be complete [censored].

You sound like the kind of player everyone dreams to sit beside. Raises preflop, and can't get away from the hand if they hit so much as top pair.

My advice would be to quit, but in the back of my mind, im rooting for you to keep playing. Preferably at party, 1/2 or 2/4 limit 6max tables.

[Precept2]

Also, I like how bullshit when you say s.o.b. and that poker is a [censored] joke.

Why the double-standard?

To the OP:

Aside from your run of bad luck, I'm seeing a major factor as to why you may not be a winning player as of yet.

You are playing:

1) Limit
2) No Limit
3) Cash Games
4) Tournaments

These are all different ways to play hold'em, but they are pretty much all different games strategy-wise. Would you expect to be a winning player if you were trying to become an expert at omaha, stud, and low ball all at the same time? Of coarse not. Some can. Most of the sucessful ones probably got good at multiple games one at a time though.

Time to get a focus man. My advice is to pick limit or no limit, and pick cash or tourneys.

[magiluke]

[ QUOTE ]
.5/1 is mathematically the same game as 1000/2000.

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I'm not sure if I agree with that completely.

You and I might be able to play the same way at any level, but many other people aren't. Because of this, you may have to change your game slightly.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.5/1 is mathematically the same game as 1000/2000.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure if I agree with that completely.

You and I might be able to play the same way at any level, but many other people aren't. Because of this, you may have to change your game slightly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously he's talking about not playing different just because of the size of the limit. Texture dictates adjustment, not limit size.

b

[bernie]

Welcome to the forum.

b