Flop checkraise with air

[Justin A]

Full Party game has gone temporarily 5 handed.

CO limps, he's like 35/10. I complete in SB with Q9o, BB checks.

Flop is 422 with two spades. I have the queen of spades.
I check, BB checks, CO bets, I raise, BB folds, CO calls.

Turn 2c.
Bet-call.

River Js.
I check.

Comments?

[cold_cash]

I think you may as well have gone all the way and bet the river.

I don't like any of it.

[Aces McGee]

Did you plan on betting a non-spade river?

I bet the river in the games I'm playing (3/6 Party, 5/10 live). You've come too far to give up, in my opinion, and there's really not a lot he can call with that he's likely to have. But that could not be the case in your games or against certain opponents.

I think this sort of thing is okay once in a while, but I usually just bet the flop and turn here and it's worked pretty well.

-McGee

[mdob]

Easy check on the river. When he called the turn, he almost certainly has a pair. He's not going to fold that on the river. You obviously have no fold equity representing a flush against a pair.

I like the turn bet since you have a good chance to push him off spades (and the best hand) there, though the flop check-raise is more aggressive than I'd play it.

[Kailia Marie]

Hi Justin,

You are much better off just betting this flop yourself if you felt like playing it then checkraising and having to desperately stab at this pot out of position.

Also (this may not matter much against a non thinking player or if you are very loose in the blinds) but you completed from the SB in a tiny pot, so the villian could(?) assume that you wouldn't complete a totally raggedy hand that contained a 4 or a 2 in it, so he may assume there is a higher possiblity that you are bluffing or semibluffing.

/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia

[mdob]

[ QUOTE ]

Also (this may not matter much against a non thinking player or if you are very loose in the blinds) but you completed from the SB in a tiny pot, so the villian could(?) assume that you wouldn't complete a totally raggedy hand that contained a 4 or a 2 in it, so he may assume there is a higher possiblity that you are bluffing or semibluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kailia,
I think you answered your own question here. Villain has a VPIP of 35. That's very high and likely indicates an opponent who doesn't think much, so I wouldn't worry about what he thinks we could reasonably have. Further evidence that he doesn't think or adjust his game is that he limped first in from the CO.

[SeaEagle]

First off, this line is just spewing unless you have a read on villian's postflop play, which you don't give. Specifically, I'd have to know he'd bet with overs and give up against aggression.

As you played it, I don't understand giving up on the river. You only need to fold out a better hand 15% of the time to make a river bet a positive play and I think an unknown is tossing Ax or Kx more than 15%.

I'd also be happy if my opponent folded a worse hand to a river bet, since I'm not really excited showing I played Q9o this way.

[SmileyEH]

I'd call you down with ace high, I might fold a king high flush draw that missed, but I'd probably 3bet the flop. I think you can bet the river. Flop is meh, I don't particularly like bluffing it but you are a better than I. Also, you do have a fair amount of showdown value here - this opp. might bluff if you check?

-SmileyEH

[Justin A]

I think the most important part of this is that I likely have the best hand. His limp from the CO means he very likely does not have an ace or king, and this is pretty much an autobet for him when the flop is checked there. By the time the river comes around, I don't see any point in betting, and I had not yet decided whether to call a bet or not. I think it gets checked behind the majority of the time though.

[newhizzle]

i do this far too often, sometimes it works, but i dont think its a good line against a loosey

Party is full of people who check-raise the flop with one pair or worse, so don't expect a lot of folks to take your move seriously. I'm surprised CO didn't reraise.

[TStoneMBD]

if you think CO would only limp with a hand less than Kx or Ax then why not just bet the flop with the best hand rather than checkraise? i really dont think youre going to get him to fold Ax if thats what hes holding. i also dont know what he could be calling the turn with, but it doesnt look like queen high is good. check calling the river seems crazy since you cant even beat a jack now.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think CO would only limp with a hand less than Kx or Ax then why not just bet the flop with the best hand rather than checkraise? i really dont think youre going to get him to fold Ax if thats what hes holding. i also dont know what he could be calling the turn with, but it doesnt look like queen high is good. check calling the river seems crazy since you cant even beat a jack now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like betting because all three of us are likely to have overcards, and there's a good chance I get called in two places. It's true that once I get called on the turn I can't like my hand too much, but when I bet the turn I still think I have the best hand quite often. Most of the hands a CO with a 10 PFR will open limp with cannot beat Q high.

I think the best move would be to fold to a river bet, but I don't think it happens all that often.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the most important part of this is that I likely have the best hand. His limp from the CO means he very likely does not have an ace or king, and this is pretty much an autobet for him when the flop is checked there. By the time the river comes around, I don't see any point in betting, and I had not yet decided whether to call a bet or not. I think it gets checked behind the majority of the time though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope you won this hand with Q high... that would rule.

I think your logic on the flop check-raise is actually very astute.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the most important part of this is that I likely have the best hand. His limp from the CO means he very likely does not have an ace or king, and this is pretty much an autobet for him when the flop is checked there. By the time the river comes around, I don't see any point in betting, and I had not yet decided whether to call a bet or not. I think it gets checked behind the majority of the time though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really hope you won this hand with Q high... that would rule.

I think your logic on the flop check-raise is actually very astute.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did. CO checked behind with 65s.