More Replayers Plzzzz

Ive only recently played sngs seriously, and I cant stop losing money. I watched the replayer on the FAQ (hostile) and it helped me alot. I was wondering if any of the pros here (raptor, durron, adar, etc.) would be willing to post any of their low limit hand histories (if they still remember wat low limit is). The entire game as opposed to one or 2 bubble hands.

And would it ever be ok to post my entire game? It seems pretty fast to review an sng if you assume no reads (8 tablin the 10s).

Thxs to all replies, Brian

[citanul]

how about totally random non responsive responses, like this one, instead:

if you're breaking even 8 tabling the 10s, perhaps you should play *many* fewer tables, until you learn to beat the games.

citanul

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]

if you're breaking even 8 tabling the 10s, perhaps you should play *many* fewer tables, until you learn to beat the games.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

solid suggestion. The point of MTing is to increase $$/hr. If you are in the red/not beating them, well, you are just increasing the rate at which you bleed away $$/hr - not a good thing /images/graemlins/smile.gif

=( iunno if i like random non resposive response...

Ive thought of that, and the reason that I'm still 8 tablin is because I want to beat this game without reads. It is evidently possible because the top players here 16 table high stakes. I use to play one table and did fairly well. I saw no use in adding tables slowly cuz its so hard to get a read with 3+ tables. Am I wrong?

Is playing fewer tables the only way to get better? I just dont see what I can do at 3 tables that I cant do at 8. but Blindly listening to Cit has to be +EV.Brian

[suited_ace]

Then watch TV, read the forums, search for random stuff on the net while you play 1 table. FWIW, that's just not very smart. There's a learning curve to the game, just bear with it. You need to consistently beat the game *with* reads before you can even think about multi-tabling.

[lorinda]

US-PGA 2006 shocker

TIGER TO PLAY WITH THREE CLUBS

In a shocking move today, Tiger Woods threw most of the clubs out of his golf bag.

"My putting has been a bit rough recently, so I chucked the putter in the lake" explained Woods.

"Also, one of my drives went a bit to the right, so I snapped my wood in half" continuted the nutty golfer.

"I saw Greg Norman win a tournament once with only TWO clubs on his local pitch 'n' putt course, and I want to do something similar" he explained.

Woods will be using a 7-iron, an 8-iron and a pointed stick to mount his challenge on the USPGA title tomorrow.

Lori

[citanul]

well if you're making a ton of mistakes, and breaking even, adding tables isn't going to help.

clearly the games are beatable without reads. learning to play using reads is nice and all, but also not all that important to making a passable amount at higher stakes games. i would suggest playing fewer, say 4 to start with, until you are at least winning. what you do past then, is up to you. but since you clearly need to be thinking more about *something* so that you can either make better decisions and learn to hardwire them, or to notice when you've made a mistake in some fashion, slowing down your hands/second would be a good thing universally.

addendum: i don't know of a single player beating 16 tables of high stakes games.

anyways, send me a pm so i remember this later, and i'll see what i can do about posting some 30s and below on the replayer site.

citanul

[citanul]

nh.

The above post wins this thread. Nice work Lori.

[rybones]

This is just my take, so do with this what u want.

Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."

The important word there is "seen." You cannot "see" anything if you jump from playing 1 or 2 tables to 8 tables. play 1 or 2 and try to make (literally write) 2 notes for each player. It is a huge pain in the arse, but if you can do that you will begin to "see" things. One of my favorite notes is "min-raiser". The better note is when you can say "min-raiser who will ... when ... happens."

As always, please feel free to comment or no.

Ryan

[ QUOTE ]


Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."



[/ QUOTE ]

I think when u say "read" you mean something else.

When i say read, I was talking about the way your opponents play, not the situations. Ex:Is the BB loose or tight, what would be his calling range? The reads that CANNOT be made multi tabling. Pros are beating games without these reads.

As for the reads/situations you talk about, I find them hard to see, whether I play one or 8 tables. I think an author explains that you can only learn this through theory rather than experience. Becuase you cant judge the play by the outcome in poker.

I def. agree with you that I'm not "seeing"/learning as much by multi-tabling. I think I will bump down to 4 table for awhile as Cit suggested it would atleast slow down my losses.

thxs for the reply, Brian

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."



[/ QUOTE ]

I think when u say "read" you mean something else.

When i say read, I was talking about the way your opponents play, not the situations. Ex:Is the BB loose or tight, what would be his calling range? The reads that CANNOT be made multi tabling. Pros are beating games without these reads.

As for the reads/situations you talk about, I find them hard to see, whether I play one or 8 tables. I think an author explains that you can only learn this through theory rather than experience. Becuase you cant judge the play by the outcome in poker.

I def. agree with you that I'm not "seeing"/learning as much by multi-tabling. I think I will bump down to 4 table for awhile as Cit suggested it would atleast slow down my losses.

thxs for the reply, Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

You are very wrong and quite misguided. Please heed the advice of others in this thread

Yes I know =), im dying at the 10s.

But which part? did I misinterpret the post? Or the thing about learning through theory only? or all of it?

I am definitly taking everyones advice that has been posted here and will be slowing down. Thxs everyone, Brian

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."



[/ QUOTE ]

I think when u say "read" you mean something else.

When i say read, I was talking about the way your opponents play, not the situations. Ex:Is the BB loose or tight, what would be his calling range? The reads that CANNOT be made multi tabling. Pros are beating games without these reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

The people you speak of are using are the default player read. What would the average player at this level do? If you intend to play without paying attention to the particulars of your opponents, then you absolutely must learn that read. And you aren't going to learn it if you aren't watching.

As long as you're losing, you're paying money to learn. And the more tables you play as you learn, the more you're paying.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I know =), im dying at the 10s.

But which part? did I misinterpret the post? Or the thing about learning through theory only? or all of it?

I am definitly taking everyones advice that has been posted here and will be slowing down. Thxs everyone, Brian

[/ QUOTE ]

Play no more than 2 tables at a time until you are making money. I recommend only 1.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:

Quote:


Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."





I think when u say "read" you mean something else.

When i say read, I was talking about the way your opponents play, not the situations. Ex:Is the BB loose or tight, what would be his calling range? The reads that CANNOT be made multi tabling. Pros are beating games without these reads.



The people you speak of are using are the default player read. What would the average player at this level do? If you intend to play without paying attention to the particulars of your opponents, then you absolutely must learn that read. And you aren't going to learn it if you aren't watching.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I mean. Experience will tell you what the average player does at the $11 tables and that is a read. Furthermore, even if you are multi-tabling you can still pay attention to particular players "Ex: is the BB loose or tight?" I think Gigabet posted a great thread on this. He (giga) and many others here are able to play 8 tables and make very specific reads about players very quickly. If I had the time I would link you to that thread. Anyway, learning to make reads based on your experience with "the average player" or based on what players do in just the 30 min of levels 1-4 takes time (time means experience). However, that old phrase "practice make perfect" is crap. If you practice tons (tons means 8 tabling or likely even 4) but never in a manner that allows you to really see what is happening you will never make reads well.

Again, just my thoughts

Ryan

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Quote:

Quote:


Reads are nothing more than experience! Thus the "top" players do use reads!!

Read: "hey I have seen this before, I'll bet he fold if I push over the top."





I think when u say "read" you mean something else.

When i say read, I was talking about the way your opponents play, not the situations. Ex:Is the BB loose or tight, what would be his calling range? The reads that CANNOT be made multi tabling. Pros are beating games without these reads.



The people you speak of are using are the default player read. What would the average player at this level do? If you intend to play without paying attention to the particulars of your opponents, then you absolutely must learn that read. And you aren't going to learn it if you aren't watching.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I mean. Experience will tell you what the average player does at the $11 tables and that is a read. Furthermore, even if you are multi-tabling you can still pay attention to particular players "Ex: is the BB loose or tight?" I think Gigabet posted a great thread on this. He (giga) and many others here are able to play 8 tables and make very specific reads about players very quickly. If I had the time I would link you to that thread. Anyway, learning to make reads based on your experience with "the average player" or based on what players do in just the 30 min of levels 1-4 takes time (time means experience). However, that old phrase "practice make perfect" is crap. If you practice tons (tons means 8 tabling or likely even 4) but never in a manner that allows you to really see what is happening you will never make reads well.

Again, just my thoughts

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post Ryan.

The only way youre going to figure this stuff out is to pay attention to your opponents.

One table and watch everything that everyone does. Repeat many times. Things other players are doing will begin to make sense with less effort on your part after a while. Add a table or two when you know start to know what people are going to turn over before you see their cards.

[ QUOTE ]
However, that old phrase "practice make perfect" is crap. If you practice tons (tons means 8 tabling or likely even 4) but never in a manner that allows you to really see what is happening you will never make reads well.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you just nail my problem. About 300 games at 10+1 and about break even. I've been playing 8 tables thinking I would encounter more situations and gain experience faster. In reality, I probably learned nothing except how to click faster. Very depressing, but I stay determined.

As for getting reads fast (ur example of gigabet), it is unthinkable for me at the moment. I 8 table on a 1024x768 resolution screen with a virtual destop manager. It is hell. Knowing it is possible to read (fast) is inspiring, and I WILL learn how to eventually.

Thxs for the great post Ryan. Brian

[lorinda]

Replaying your own games is also allowed.

If you are break even, the good news is that you are making mistakes. You can therefore try to find them to improve your game by replaying your own tournaments.

You may not actually be able to find your own errors, it's not that easy to do, but the process of trying will help your thought processes.

Lori