5 Hands for Review (includes detailed self-analysis) [Archive]

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09-13-2005, 05:41 PM

(EDIT - Should have noted that this is 0.50/1.00)

To help with the learning curve, I am posting 5 hands. I don't think that I played any of them horribly, and would say that some of them represent what I consider 'correct' play. Your comments are welcome and appreciated!

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Hand 1

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG folds, Button calls.

Would cap with this, so I think that this is correct.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

With the overpair, I am going to bet this aggressively, also pretty uncoordinated flop. I think the three bet is correct.

Turn: (6.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

With the overpair, I am going to continue betting, if I get raised back at, I am going to slow down here, thinking that I could be up against a set or two pair.

River: (8.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Scary card, makes the flush, puts an overcard on the board. I bet out thinking that I don't want to give the villan credit for a hand they don't have. I could check here and call a raise, but I think I am good most of the time so I am value betting.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

I am thinking that my river bet may have been wrong here, too many hands could have beat me. Thoughts?

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Hand 2

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

This hand is on the edge of hands that I like to play from UTG, but I usually play it, and since there is no open limping allowed, I think that the raise is correct.

Flop: (10 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, CO raises, SB folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP calls, CO calls, BB calls.

With top pair top kicker, and a gutshot to the nut flush I am liking this flop. I think that betting out is correct as I was the preflop raiser and I don't want to risk it getting checked around. I also like the three bet as it positions me to knock some players out with a bet on the turn.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls, BB raises, Hero calls, MP folds, CO calls.

Not a bad card for me, I still have TPTK, and it also gives me 9 outs to the nut flush. At this point if I am behind 2 pairs or an overpair I have 14 outs, against a set I have 11 outs, so I am willing to bet this. The check raise from the BB was scary, so I just called it. Should I have 3 bet? I don't think that a 3 bet knocks anything out (4 to a flush, 2 pairs or a set).

River: (17 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Scary card, leaves me without the flush and middle pair with top kicker. with the HUGE pot, I am not folding, but I don't see a raise here, so I call.

Final Pot: 20 BB

I think that I played this hand soundly overall. Comments?

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Hand 3

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

Again JTs is on the limits of a hand worth playing UTG, but since I am playing it, I am raising it. When it gets capped, I am not sure if I should fold it or call it. Figured with two people in I may as well call and see what comes on the flop. Was this a really bad play?

Flop: (12.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

I think that the bet by the BB could be a continuation bet with AK, AQ, AJ, or even KQ, so I am going to raise it see if he is serious or not about his raise, when he 3 bets I am thinking that he may be on a overpair.

Turn: (10.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

At this point I am putting him on a overpair, so I figure I have 5 outs (discount to 4 for the flush draw, and the potential that I am up against a set), so I am getting 11 to 1 at this point, and with 4 outs I need 10.5 to call, so this is a call based on pot odds, and is a clear call when you consider implied odds.

River: (13.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Nothing card here, unless someone is playing a J7 or something, but based on preflop betting I don't think so. I think that I lose this hand to a set or bigger pair, but with 14 to 1 to call.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

I think that my key mistakes in this hand could have been: A) calling the cap preflop, and then B) calling the river. Thoughts?

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Hand 4

I think that I was lost pretty much this whole hand, as I usually am with 99 - 77 when I don't hit the set or OESD.

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG folds, Hero calls.

I raise this hand as it is pretty much what every starting hand chart says to do. I really don't like pocket pairs, and think I play them poorly. My poker tracker indicates that 88 is a (0.39) BB/hand loser, whereas 77 is a 0.44 BB/hand winner (both samples over about 80 hands). I just try to play as the books say to with these, I don't really understnad them that well.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

I am thinking that the bet out is a continuation bet, and since I have middle pair, heads up, it is worth raising. When I get reraised I don't know what to think. Overpair, 2 pair, set?

Turn: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Another overcard, so now I have third pair, but heads up is it weak to fold, don't have much of a read on the player.

River: (8.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Safe card, but again, should I be calling this down?

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Wow, this was a bad hand for me. I was uncomfortable and behind a lot, yet I kept calling, mostly because it was heads up. Should I have let this go on the flop 3-bet? The turn unimproved? the river?

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Hand 5

converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Easy raise.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP folds, CO raises, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Coordinated flop, with lots of limpers, guessing someone has a 5 or A, so I don't expect to get everyone out with a bet, but hopefully one or two. I don't know if this should have been a check/fold?

When the raise comes I am putting them on a OESD, 2 pair or a set. I think that this could have been a fold, but the pot is getting big, so it was worth a call. Was this bad?

Turn: (8 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, SB calls.

Nice card, gives me TPTK, puts a flush on the board, but this is worth betting out on, I don't want it to get checked around, and it is a scare card so it may if I check it.

River: (11 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SB calls.

This is both good and bad, on first glance it is very good, but it also puts the flush on the board, and gives any 5 the straight. I don't think that I should check/call this, so I decide to bet/call. Should I have check/call? bet/fold? I am pretty sure that check/fold is wrong...but I am wrong about a lot of things....

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

On this hand I am thinking that my flop and river play were suspect, intersted in comments.

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Well if you read this whole thing....THANK YOU!!!

I am really trying to learn, so all comments are appreciated!

Margon

bank

09-13-2005, 05:52 PM

here we go...

hand 1: looks good until river. Either bet/fold or c/c here. I bet/fold here.

hand 2: raising ATo UTG is standard. I like flop/turn...don't 3 bet this turn. I think I can find a fold on this river even getting 18 to 1. It's close though.

hand 3: you're getting 10.5:2 in a 1/2 blind structure. I fold preflop here. Given that you called here preflop I think your flop raise is bad. Just flat call here...it's too likely you will get 3 bet/capped here when dominated.

hand 4: good preflop. I just flat call this flop and re-evaluate turn.

hand 5: sometimes I check this flop given those 3 limpers behind me but I think a bet is fine. I like your turn bet when king hits...too likely it will get checked through. River is very opponent dependent but I think I go for the overcall here and just flat call dependent on how passive the bettor is (note bd flush AND straight out there).

odawg09090

09-13-2005, 05:55 PM

What level limits is this? I'm thinking 5/10 or lower...

Anyways:

Hand 1: I like the riverbet. I think you have to call a raise here unless you have a solid read on the guy as super passive.

Hand 2: Soundly played overall. I like that flop 3 bet as it should've helped thin the field a little more with MP might be folding. If not, then your equity is a favorite here with top pair and the backdoor flush draw (not "gutshot flush draw"). And the turn and river are standard.

Hand 3: That preflop call is questionable. But it isn't THAT big of a mistake. I'd call down too even on the river in that big of a pot. Could be an overplayed TT or something.

Hand 4: Fairly standard IMO. You have to call that down. No aces, no kings. Call it down.

Hand 5: By far... the toughest hand of them all IMO. The flop should probably be a check call (not a check fold). A bet isn't bad either but I prefer a check call. I like the turn lead with the scarecard up. The river, I think you didn't play it right. With 1 to a straight and a flush, you should probably just call it. SB isn't leading into a field of 3 with nothing here, at least a 5 for a straight. Also, you have the cutoff to act after you too so you want the call from him if you're ahead and he has an ace, a PP or something. Calling the river loses the least when behind (which is SUPER likely) and likely wins the same when ahead (because of the extra CO call). No value in a river raise.

Overall, you played the hands well. Good luck in getting there.

Drontier

09-13-2005, 06:01 PM

Hands 1,2,4 are pretty basic and you played them well. Hand 3 I fold pf. I don't like raising JTs here and once it gets capped on the occasions that I do, this is also an easy muck. Raisign the flop isn't horrible. Even against AA or KK ur hand has quite a bit of value now. I would call this down after 3 bet as well, but my hand would never have made it this far. Hand 5, sb has been calling the entire way. This seems too high of a possibility of a 5, and by raising you will knock out any CO hand except a 5. Go for the overcall.

d10

09-13-2005, 06:26 PM

Hand 1 looks good. There's nothing wrong with betting the river here. You'll be called by an 8, a T, or pocket pairs lower than yours, sometimes even A-high. There's no reason to believe this guy was drawing to a K, and given his action on the flop I don't really put him on a spade draw either. The only question is do you pay off the raise? I usually do, but at a .50/1 game, few opponents raise without a hand that beats yours. Bet/fold may have been correct.

I would fold the river in hand 2. BB almost certainly has a straight or a flush, but at the least he's got something that beats you. And with CO still to act, it's not worth putting any more money in. You'll almost always lose here, and sometimes you'll throw away more than 1 bet getting to showdown.

Hand 3, "I think that my key mistakes in this hand could have been: A) calling the cap preflop, and then B) calling the river. Thoughts?" I would agree.

Hand 4 depends on your opponent. A lot of guys at .5/1 would never be that agressive with a hand that doesn't beat yours. But I know plenty of guys who would play an unimproved AK the same way. I call it down against most opponents, or without a read.

Hand 5, I just call the river, but otherwise play it the same.

mcvalenc

09-13-2005, 06:29 PM

Hand 1: Everything looks good up till the river raise. His overall actions throughout the hand look very much like he hit his Kx hand on the river at the least. I think a fold is best, the pot isn't large enough to look him up.

Hand 2: I think I'd play it the same. I'd fold the river if the CO raises.

Hand 3: GOOD call preflop. Connected suiters like JTs have the correct odds to flop a draw. I'd be more tempted to fold this river in comparison to hand 2 since my kicker isn't too great, and the BB has been going nuts the whole way, which likely means an overpair at worst. And of course you're not closing the action.

Hand 4: I play it the same. The flop doesn't look too worrisome and by the river there's only 1 broadway card out there.

Hand 5: If the CO is aggressive I'd consider a turn CR, otherwise I think the turn donk is fine. The river card, despite putting 4 to a straight on the board, gives you too strong enough of a hand to fold. I'd hate to raise, kick out the CO and give the SB an opportunity to 3bet me and leave me in a really awkward situation, so I'd prefer calling and going for an overcall from the CO.

Hope this helps.

Drontier

09-13-2005, 06:32 PM

I think uve been reading too many books. If you call hand 3 pf. Where do you draw the line? You call 89s capped? QJ s capped? First of all UTG i dont even think JTs is a legit raise, but its not horrible I agree. This is a BAD cap call. The flop is almost beautiful tho

mcvalenc

09-13-2005, 06:50 PM

link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3356892&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=all&vc=1)

09-13-2005, 07:55 PM

Quick comment on Hand 5. Regardless of your pot/implied odds, a decent case can be made that it is unwise to raise preflop with AK o/s in a 5-way pot of limpers as you are unlikely to knock out more than one player, and AK doesn't play particularly well against 4 opponents. In addition you conceal the strength of your hand. However if your opponents are tight players this play increases in value for generally well known reasons.

But here is an often overlooked reason to cold-raise preflop: a cold raise from BB against 4 opponents (preflop) by a strong-tight player all but gives your hand away (provided your opponents are not maniacs) - which is good! (especially when the flop comes something like it did).

Here's why this is good:
After revealing your hand, any hand worth calling your bet after Kh on the turn is either sticking out the straight draw (i.e. SB) or has a decent hand, but one which that player knows is beat unless it improves on the river - a hand like Q 3, Q 3 suited, and maybe even A 4, A 3 suited, or a middle pocket pair (i.e. CO). For this reason, you HAVE to fold on the river when Ah shows up.

Again, two reasons to do so:
1. your opponents have been passive upto this point and would only bet a straight or better to guarantee some action,
2. because of your cold preflop raise and subsequent hand-revelation both of your opponents are likely to expect you to have paired an Ace, if not Aces and Kings.

At this point in my speal one might say that if your opponents suspected you of pairing your Ace on the river while they had made either or a straight or a flush then they would check-raise - you are right, most will make this play even with only a straight.
But there are three reasons for SB to come out betting on the river:
1. SB makes a straight and wants you (or CO) to come over the top with your pair of Aces/two pair, making it 3 bets instead of 2 or 0 at showdown.
2. SB makes a flush and wants to make sure you and CO don't check it down (and hopefully raise instead, making it 3 bets instead of 2 or 0).
3. SB makes a straight and wants to know if anyone made a flush.

I admit my analysis of this situation is not based off of especially well-known or respected theory - mostly because I don't think this theory for this play really exists for any kind of public display. This reply is based almost entirely from my own experience, and is very possibly not the best way to go about playing in this situation. However, more 'open-hand information' on the hero's part often translates into unwittingly 'open-hand info' play on the part of your opponents as it usually forces them to play more honestly.

09-13-2005, 08:40 PM

Thank you all for the responses so far, I have read them all and there are some learnings in there.

Of them all I think that the biggest relates to calling the Capped Flop with JTs when I have already put in two bets. I don't think that I will ever do this again.

Margon

mcvalenc

09-14-2005, 01:03 AM

Check the link I posted earlier.