How do you feel about people outright asking you for money?

[Python49]

It just seems to me that the fact you have money changes peoples views on you and how they treat you. I have to admit that when I first started playing I was very fascinated with winning and im young, so naturally I felt like telling friends and family about my success because it was something I was enthusiastic about.

I kind of wish I had never told people to begin with. Well not erally that but, i just wish that people didn't react the way they do.

My room mate last year for example used to come in and watch me play and see how much money I had and would say, "Yo man how about you just give me $300, you got so much money man". And i'd say "Why would i do that? You're a college student just like myself whose trying to get by.. what reason would I have to just give away money?". He actually felt that I was stingy for not GIVING away money. He's not the only one i've had ask for money, i've had others ask me for money too.

It's partially my fault because im just a very open person and used to tell people if they asked how much I was up... i don't do that anymore though but its too late, people already know. It spreads pretty fast. I go to a game on campus and people will talk about how im up all this money and should host a party. What makes people genuinely feel as though its alright to ask for someone elses money? Is it the way that it was made? Maybe they feel I hit a jack pot or something and didn't earn it legitimately?

I just got done having a convesration with one of the people who would ask me because I wanted to make a point and see if he agreed. I asked him if I made my money working for $50 an hour over the summer at a job with some corporation would he still ask for money, and was told no. I tried to drive home the point that just because I have more money than him does not mean I have money that I can just give away, it's not like i'm rich and very well off or anything. Even if I were, what obligations would I have to just giving away money to someone else just because they ask? I have no problem helping someone to help themselves, but what good does just giving someone money do? The way I see it, I had to earn what I have on my own, shouldnt others have to do the same? If my friend were to get a nice paying job, I wouldn't just start asking them for money.. so why do other people do it and then act as though you're a greedy person when telling them no? He tried to draw an analogy to me not donating money to him with me not donating money to hurricane katrina, I told him that I would and already HAVE donated money to this and its completely different. Why should I have to give money away that I earned on my own to other people who have not earned it? How would you respond to someone saying "Wow you have X amount of money? Give me 1,000.. aww why not? You have so much, stop being greedy".

Am I in the wrong or something because this view is shared by more than one person... people just seem to want something for nothing. I do NOT just go around telling random people I don't know about what i've won, i just tell friends because most of them know I play, and then they tell others and it comes up when talking with acquantinces. I WOULD give away money to a close friend in a situation if he needed it for a legitimate purpose other than just wanting it to have it. Anyone else had experience with this? Whats your view and how do you respond.

[4_2_it]

You are learning a valuable lesson. Don't ever discuss your financial situation outside of your immediate family (and even that can get you in trouble).

Obviously you are young and so are your friends and you are still learning about the true concept of money and what it takes to live on your own (if I am mistaken, no offense intended).

I never mention money (poker or otherwise) with any of my friends. Frankly, it is none of their business and they should have the good manners not to ask. If it ever comes up, I say something vague like "I'm doing okay" or "some days are better than others." I never say, "I just won $500 off some idiot who called my quads all-in!"

Frankly, I would question how much of friend someone really is if they expect you to share the wealth with them. You are certainly under no obligation to do so unless you believe everyone should live a communal existence and share all possessions with their neighbors. In that case, you should immediately move to the nearest communist country (hurry, there are few left), but beware, because I think that gambling and surfing the 'net may be capital offenses there.

As to helping those in need, whether financial or otherwise, I believe you should always do this when you are able because it is +EV in life. Being generous is much different than being sponged off of (if that is the correct way of saying it).

[TheWorstPlayer]

Nice post. I am also very open with several friends about these things. But most of them are in the same boat as I am - work at a good job, have more money than they really know what to do with, also are winning poker players, etc. The friends that I have who don't play a lot of winning poker, I don't discuss finances with nearly as much because it is just uncomfortable. It will inevitably either make them feel weird or make me regret it. It is better in life just to be quiet and humble in general. Try hard, do well, accept the good with the bad, and just go about your business. I really liked the story about the woman who lived in a little apartment in New York and rarely spent a dime. Then she died and left $22 million to a college as a gift. Made me think, y'know?

I don't discuss my finances with anyone. Not even my parents. My girlfriend knows more than most, but even she only knows my approximate deposits into my bank account, not the size of my bankroll or the levels I'm playing at.

Very few people, even other poker players, understand that there's a huge difference between an $xx,xxx bankroll and having $xx,xxx in the bank. They also don't understand that even though you can make four or five figures in one night you can't just do that whenever you want. I don't even discuss the size of the games I play in, as I don't want people making guesses at what I'm earning.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
It's partially my fault because im just a very open person and used to tell people if they asked how much I was up... I go to a game on campus and people will talk about how im up all this money and should host a party.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't mind me asking, how much are we talking about here?

[Python49]

So is this a trick question?

[J.A.Sucker]

Hey dude, can you spare me 500 bucks? PM me for my stars name. Thanks.

[bernie]

Great friends...

Anyone who tries that hard to get 'free' money from you isn't a friend.

Screw 'em. You don't have to have a reason for not lending them money. Why is the burden on you? The more they ask for a reason, that becomes the reason, imo.

None of my buds have ever asked for a dime yet I'd help 'em out if they needed it. I also don't really tell them how much I make playing. I sure never bring it up.

I'd hang out with different people.

b

[Jorge10]

I was going to make a post just like this one, by being an open person you mean you have to tell someone you are kicking ass! I hate to say it, but its the same with me, its just that my parents keep asking, how much did you win? did you play? and my friends as well, but none have asked for money...yet. Still I have to say I still need to get that under control, I think I will never speak to anyone about poker that doesnt play poker ever again. I just need a good lie for when people ask me what I do for cash. Also I think you need some friends that play poker to tell about your wins, which is something I need as well, I need to get some friends that play poker, people that dont play poker just dont get it.

[Python49]

[ QUOTE ]
Great friends...

Anyone who tries that hard to get 'free' money from you isn't a friend.

Screw 'em. You don't have to have a reason for not lending them money. Why is the burden on you? The more they ask for a reason, that becomes the reason, imo.

None of my buds have ever asked for a dime yet I'd help 'em out if they needed it. I also don't really tell them how much I make playing. I sure never bring it up.

I'd hang out with different people.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well they do it in a joking way kinda so its not like a buncha nagging negativity, that only happened with one person.. my room mate last year. But people say it in a way where its like.. they wanna sound like they're joking but still want you to respond yes or no.

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
Well they do it in a joking way kinda so its not like a buncha nagging negativity, that only happened with one person.. my room mate last year. But people say it in a way where its like.. they wanna sound like they're joking but still want you to respond yes or no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell them to fxck off, in a joking manner.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Great friends...

Anyone who tries that hard to get 'free' money from you isn't a friend.

Screw 'em. You don't have to have a reason for not lending them money. Why is the burden on you? The more they ask for a reason, that becomes the reason, imo.

None of my buds have ever asked for a dime yet I'd help 'em out if they needed it. I also don't really tell them how much I make playing. I sure never bring it up.

I'd hang out with different people.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well they do it in a joking way kinda so its not like a buncha nagging negativity, that only happened with one person.. my room mate last year. But people say it in a way where its like.. they wanna sound like they're joking but still want you to respond yes or no.

[/ QUOTE ]

I treat that as not joking. They are putting you in a position.

b

[Greg (FossilMan)]

As others have already stated in their replies, these people aren't very good friends. Anybody who thinks you should give them money just because you have it is a tool. At least in my world view, that makes no sense. As soon as one of these jokers does this, tell them that you are hurt that they would even ask. When they say they were just joking, tell them no, you were not. Don't you remember, I'm a winning poker player, and I can tell when you're bluffing and when you're not. You weren't bluffing when you asked, but you are bluffing now when you say you were just joking.

Even if it's not true that you can read them so well, they'll buy it, and you'll be right, anyway.

I am aware that many people are like these friends of yours. Not long after I won, somebody asked my Dad how it feels to be rich. He said, what are you talking about, and they replied that your Son must have given you at least a million, so how does it feel to be a millionaire. My Dad just laughed at them, and asked them why they would assume that I would just give him a bunch of money. They truly believed that this was just the way it would work. To them, it was a given that if I win 5M, I give at leat 1M to my parents. Obviously, if my parents ever need anything, I'll do whatever I can to help, but why just give them money? I sure don't see things that way.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Richie Rich]

Partly "yes", mainly "no".

[DrSavage]

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=322

[Luke]

C'mon man, it's like rule nombre uno:

"never let no one know
How much, dough you hold, cause you know
The cheddar breed jealousy, specially
If that man f_cked up, get your _ss stuck up"

[Jeffage]

It's the ten crack commandments....what

Jeff

[drewjustdrew]

If any of my friends seriously asked me for money just for the hell of it, I would tell them to STFU and get a job. If they felt offended by that, I could not care less. I would have immediately lost a tremendous amount of respect for them and would begin to distance myself.

If they had a serious need, or it was a loan, I would consider it.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
C'mon man, it's like rule nombre uno:

"never let no one know
How much, dough you hold, cause you know
The cheddar breed jealousy, specially
If that man f_cked up, get your _ss stuck up"

[/ QUOTE ]
"Never sell no crack where you rest at": No home games
"Keep your family and business completely separated": Don't talk to you parents about your winnings
"'Cause money and blood don't mix like two dicks and no chick": Ain't that the truth?

[Lottery Larry]

I don't know- how do they feel when I tell them to go away?

[jba]

bernie, you have great taste in women.

[Luke]

I hope that's a "what" like you'd say "whhaaaat" to your boys when they say something funny/cool and you are giving approval because I certainly think some of those rules apply to poker and for sure in this situation.

Besides, even if it didn't, quoting Biggie is fun.

Luke

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Better rethink your position on loans. There is no higher risk loan than that to a friend or a family member. Especially if they see you as somebody who has plenty of money. They will expect you to let them slide at a moments notice, or even forgive the loan (because you're so much better off than them).

If it is somebody you love, give them the money, don't lend it. That way, you won't feel bad when they don't pay you back, and it won't ruin the friendship/relationship. If you choose to lend money, make sure it is in a spot where you will sue them, foreclose on their collateral, whatever, the same as you would if they were a stranger, and you were a public lender. If you can't do that to them, do not make the loan.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[drewjustdrew]

Maybe it came across wrong. I agree with your attitude totally. If a close friend or relative wants a loan (none would ask for handouts), I would consider giving it to them, and have in the past. Without telling them, I consider it a gift and never press them on paying it back. So far no one has "defaulted" for a serious amount, but my frame of mind is that they do not owe it anyway. I don't value money like I appear to with my relatives/friends. I just live a very meager lifestyle, so it seems like I am cheap, when I am just easily satisfied, in terms of possessions.

[Slacker13]

In the past five years I have done very well financially (business, not poker) and people/friends started to take notice. I had two very good friends borrow money from me, one who use to pitch for the Pitsburgh Pirates (will remain nameless) and another who I went through alot with, well, I have not seen neither of them in over a year. It is now crystal clear just how good of friends they really were, not even a phone call, nothing. Now when I am approached i just say no, sorry, would love to help you but I am spread thin.
I will never lend another dime to anyone.

[bernie]

And then there's the mopes that ask for the handouts in the cardrooms and the parking lots. 'Hey fossilman, you won all that money. Just a little bit so I can pay some bills.' They say that as they are walking out of the cardroom after being busted for their last $500. This happened to me. The guy even wanted to use his car as collateral. I turn him down nicely, then he gets all pissy with me. The jerk-off.

b

[muck_nutz]

That might be the worst choice of all. Nothing like somebody you care about avoiding you because they think they owe you money.

Underlieing a lot of the gambling/lending issues are the thoughts that 'cuz you won it then its more "found" then "earned".

[GambleAB]

My money philosophy:

I currently live in Vegas, and all of my friends here are poker players also, so I don't have the "money loaning/giving" problem. But, before this summer, I lived in NC and almost all of my close friends were broke college students with crappy jobs/internships. All of them knew that I had been doing well in poker online, and after Jan all of them of course knew about my big live cash. None of them ever asked me to give them money or even loan them money, but anytime I would go over their appt I would usually bring a case of beer, or if we were ordering pizza, about half the time I would offer to cover the entire thing. Noone ever asked me to and I doubt anyone would think less of me if I didn't do it, but my thinking was that I KNOW what it's like to be broke and in college with very little spending money, and if I can pick up a $20 or $30 tab once or twice a week to make it so that thats one less thing that 3 or 4 of my buddies have to worry about, then why not?
As far as loaning people money, thats somewhat more complicated. Loaning someone you know money can sometimes lead to complacency in them paying you back, ESPECIALLY if they know that your bank account/bankroll is still healthy. I've only loaned one person money, when he had a week to come up with $1000 or he couldn't finish school (it was his last chance to take summer school to get his degree). I made sure to explain to him beforehand my concerns, and we went over a repayment plan that he stuck to so there were no problems.

[drewjustdrew]

No, I think a worse choice is loaning money to a horrible decision maker who has never been successful, then actually expecting them to pay and getting upset at them when they don't. FWIW, I don't think the people I know would act the way you describe. They have strong money/debt consciousness. Maybe that's why I'm comfortable with my attitude.

I agree with the point about "found" vs "earned". Whenever I play the lottery when it's high like now ($250 million Mega-millions), everyone expects a cut if you win. Meanwhile I don't see them chipping in to risk money on a ticket (nor would I ask for a cut if they won, maybe that's where the discrepancy comes from).

[JackStorm]

The Fossilman made several great points about loaning money.

I have had the hard luck railbirds whine to me and ask for money. Tell people that ask you for money that you dont have any money even if you do. Works most of the time.

Another approach- a calling station lousy player asked me for $20 once and I raised him. I asked him for $40 a few seconds later he had a look on his face of somebody who just got checkraised /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[lefty rosen]

Loans and gambling are a bad mix. If you ever loan people money you have to be serious about any money above an amount that you can write off. I wouldn't lend any gambler money unless I got some form of collateral and I would never loan a degenerate anything as he would just piss it away and would never pay you back either.....

[Mikey]

I hate it.

I really do.... its like... we are in a room and we are gambling.... and now you are asking me for money to gamble??


How about this one??

Its like I gamble for a living and you call me a degenerate and now you are asking me if you could borrow money?

Come on....

I can't lend you money....... Im the idiot remember.

:-)

In all honesty though I loan everyone money. I really don't care... if you need it take it...

LOL, reading the thread I was like "man, no way would I loan friends/family money, I know better already"

And then I just remembered my bro in law has owed me $200 for about half a year now...

I'm an idiot

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Better rethink your position on loans. There is no higher risk loan than that to a friend or a family member. Especially if they see you as somebody who has plenty of money. They will expect you to let them slide at a moments notice, or even forgive the loan (because you're so much better off than them).

If it is somebody you love, give them the money, don't lend it. That way, you won't feel bad when they don't pay you back, and it won't ruin the friendship/relationship. If you choose to lend money, make sure it is in a spot where you will sue them, foreclose on their collateral, whatever, the same as you would if they were a stranger, and you were a public lender. If you can't do that to them, do not make the loan.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[/ QUOTE ]

In my poker career theres been times where id literally loan my mom tons of cash. she always pays it back w/ interest if i ask, which i normally dont.

my family is kinda weird and during an impossible divorce she was always there, if she didn't have a dime to her name she'd find a way to get me 2grand to take summer classes or a few hundred here or there if i ever really needed books or food or whatever before i learned to play poker.

now she's back on her feet and is net worth doing very well in real estate. my brother is an expense for her and both of them know my situation. im teaching my brother the value of a dollar to the best of my ability and ive loaned my mom enough currently to live off of for a bit and pay devin's school until she receives the commission from the houses she's already closed.

these kinds of situations i think are different b/c of the level of trust and love within the circle.

on the flip side, my BEST FRIEND from college knows i play and paid my way via poker. he asked me to loan him 2grand. i said, "no XXXXX, i just love you too much to do that." different kind of love b/c there was a definate chance he wouldn't repay me and i didn't want to have to ever nag for the money etc and have it be something between us. i loved him too much to sacrifice his friendship for 2k. we're still best friends

other friends have said to me "hey, why can't you just give me a few hundred??" i stone cold just said, "no." i will, however, turn right around and pick up all checks for my friends and usually pay for drinks if they let me which for the most part they dont. girls are just not allowed to pay on dates as it should be. even girls that are my friends. i'll gladly take care of those i trust and love and care for but i will never flat out give people money.

im perfectly happy with this situation and feel blessed to be where i am. Im sure you do as well greg, and more power to ya.

Barron

[dibbs]

I think that's bizarre if they're actually being serious. My friends joke a lot when they see me play "d0od hook me up if youre making that much, youll just make more" but they arent really seriously asking. I'd get some new friends or something.

[smokingrobot]

would that 1M get the crap taxed out of it... gifts of 10K get taxed at what? something crazy no doubt.

[Python49]

actually, the way you just described them asking sounds like my friends. You don't interpret this as them pretty much putting out a feeler bet to test the waters and that you have to raise this semi bluff by saying "No"?

[dibbs]

Haha yea I kind of thought it sounded like that when I wrote it. I'm trying to imagine cashing out, getting a cash checked, and handing them the money saying "Here. Have it." I honestly don't know if theyd take it.

I forgot about it when reading this, but girls I'm dating or half dating (call it what you will) are the ones that most often say "Are you kidding me? Give me some money!"

I know they'd take it.

[Python49]

Now theres one thing i'd never do.. tell a girl I have alot of money. Lord no.

Worst "I win oodles of money at poker" thread EVER.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sully]

.....teach a man to fish, and he will never go hungry.

If these are people who you really wnat to keep as friends, tell them you will help them learn to be a good player if they are willing to work. Force them to understand the basics before they ever play a hand. Make them read books, study, the works. Turbo Texas Holdem isn't a bad way to make them grind out some free hands with decent competition. The free tables on these sites actually make you dumber.

Then set them up with a small bankroll that you are willing to never see again, under an account that earns YOU rakeback. Let them know this is exactly what you are doing, and that their rakeback is your fee if they ever become good. Make them feel obligated to keep that account if they continue to play, but expect that you will probably have to give some back when that day comes.

And when you think they are ready, let them take a shot and move up the levels. You will have accomplished two things:

1. "Given" them the $300 (or $500) or whatever they asked for
2. Shown them just how hard this "easy money" is.

And one out of ten may actually become a good player and earn you a little money. The others probably won't be willing to work hard enough to even get the initial stake, and will stop asking for money.

[Sully]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that's bizarre if they're actually being serious. My friends joke a lot when they see me play "d0od hook me up if youre making that much, youll just make more" but they arent really seriously asking. I'd get some new friends or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they are. They are dead serious.

[MicroBob]

haven't read the whole thread.

I can imagine that this would be a tricky situation you have put yourself in.


Barry Greenstein kind of touches on this type of stuff in his book I think.
He mentioned somewhere in there (in a post or in his book or somewhere) that he gets people ALL THE TIME just asking him to stake them....many of the people asking are people he doesn't know I believe.
Everyone knows he's got money...and everyone knows he gives some of that money to charity. So maybe he would give some of that money to ME.
I imagine he has to be rather guarded in who he chooses to be friends with because of such situations where people say "Hey Barry...give me $8,000. What do you care? It's only a single big-bet to you."
I don't know how often it happens to him...but I suspect enough times that it has gotten pretty aggrevating.


I don't know what it is about people that makes people do this to people who have done well in poker.
I sure wouldn't just ask for money from anybody I knew to have some even if I was flat-broke (naturally I might have to ask to borrow some from someone that I know well enough).


NatethaGreat posted on almost this exact same thing (the uncomfortability of having so much more money than your friends) in the psych forum several months ago.

[James Boston]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but alot of it probably stems from the fact that they don't see gambling winnings as money earned. I won about $100 at a home game one time, obviously nothing big. After the game, we went to eat. They all gave me crap for not picking up the check after winning big. Granted, it was their money I had, but they would have never had those expectations if they knew I had gotten $100 for mowing my neighbor's lawn, or some such thing.

And to say it again, don't discuss your personal finances.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey dude, can you spare me 500 bucks? PM me for my stars name. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

His stars name is Sponger15sb, in case you were serious.

[Goodie54]

Wow, Greg, I really disagree with you on this one. If I won more than, say, 3 million, I would definetly give my parents a ton of money. They wouldn't expect it, but with all they've done for me, that should be a given.

My wife and I discussed this last week just for #####'s and giggles what we would do if we won the lottery for a couple hundred million. We decided we would probably give at least 110 million away to friends and family. Why not? If you can make thier lives better and it wouldn't hurt you a bit, why exactly wouldn't you do that?

Just my two cents.

Peace

Goodie

[MMMMMM]

OK never mind the $300. How about $150?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

My wife and I discussed this last week just for #####'s and giggles what we would do if we won the lottery for a couple hundred million . We decided we would probably give at least 110 million away to friends and family.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple hundred million is worlds apart from $3-4 million. Let's say you win $500 million in the lottery. Federal and state taxes take it down to $300 million. In order to give $110 million (after taxes) to your posse, you will need to give them a total of $245 million(gift tax is still about 55% I believe). Do you see why giving away your money is a foolish financial strategy?

I will let Greg defend himself, but your argument is flawed when you compare winning $3-4 million(before taxes) with being Bill Gates rich. There is a difference.

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can make thier lives better and it wouldn't hurt you a bit, why exactly wouldn't you do that?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because you have to know where to draw the line. If you start doling out, you have to explain various levels of respect and love ($$$$) to people who are important to you.

What if you were born into money? Would you be giving money to friends you meet in your life just because it won't hurt you? It doesn't work that way.

[Goodie54]

So, if I cleared 300 million and was left with 55 million after I gave the rest away to friends and family, that would be fine with my wife and I. We could live happily ever after VERY comfortably on that money.

Who ever said I was trying to make the most financially sound stradegy? I would be trying to create the highest level of happiness for all the important people in my life.

The original post was about parents though. Obviously, if I won 3 to 4 million, my friends and extended family would have to fend for themselves. But my parents would be taken care of and I think this should most definetly be a given.

I can't imagine anyone winning this amount of money and not giving a good chunk to thier parents. That's beyond me.

Peace

Goodie

[Goodie54]

My wife and I discussed this. We would give a good portion more to our parents and siblings and the rest would be cut up evenly.

I really can't imagine having this amount of money and still watching everyone important to you have to deal with the trials and tribulations of a full time job and struggling to make ends meet. That doesn't make sense to me.

Peace

Goodie

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine anyone winning this amount of money and not giving a good chunk to their parents. That's beyond me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I commend you for your generosity. I think most people would see that their parents and close relatives were taken care of. The definition of 'taken care of' will vary based upon individual circumstances.

Here's an interesting twist: If your parents or uncle won the $400 million, would it be your expectation that they cut you a check for $50 million because they have more than enough to live on? I will predict your answer would be, "Of course not." If so, rethink my previous posts and see if you get where I am coming from.

[Goodie54]

Very big difference between parents and uncle. If my parents won that amount, yes, I would definetly expect them to give me and my brother enough of a portion so that we could retire right now. That's because I know my parents and know for a fact that they would want to do this for us.

As for an uncle, I certainly wouldn't expect it, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Peace

Goodie

[Python49]

Big difference is, im not talking millions and im not talking parents. If I won 500 million my mother would obviously be retiring and moving to wherever she wanted.

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]

Am I in the wrong or something because this view is shared by more than one person... people just seem to want something for nothing. I do NOT just go around telling random people I don't know about what i've won, i just tell friends because most of them know I play, and then they tell others and it comes up when talking with acquantinces. I WOULD give away money to a close friend in a situation if he needed it for a legitimate purpose other than just wanting it to have it. Anyone else had experience with this? Whats your view and how do you respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong and one cheap bastard. I always step up and loan money to anyone who asks as long as they are less fortunate than I.

I tell them, "I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that I only loan money to people I feel I can have a very special relationship, and you are one of those people, so I'm going to loan you the money. The bad news is I first need to take a crap, so lay down and open your mouth."

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
Who ever said I was trying to make the most financially sound stradegy? I would be trying to create the highest level of happiness for all the important people in my life.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what MC Hammer said and look at him now, im just saying...

[Scott_Baio]

[ QUOTE ]

In my poker career theres been times where id literally loan my mom tons of cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, unless it was pennies, you are a weathy, weathy man.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In my poker career theres been times where id literally loan my mom tons of cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, unless it was pennies, you are a weathy, weathy man.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, weathy??

and its ok b/c my mom has a good real estate business and is just cash poor, ya know...'bout 24k all tolled to the laon...she also did at one point take care of me for well...my entire life lol...so that earns her no interest although she says she'll pay the full tax on it for me...i say thats fine.

Barron

[Goodie54]

MC Hammer is a bit of a different situation. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take care of myself and my wife. We would have plenty left over to live comfortably for the rest of our lives.

I honestly don't understand why I'm getting so much disent to this idea. I think it's incredibly greedy and heartless to not look at this situation in the way that my wife and I do.

Peace

Goodie

[4_2_it]

I think the reason you are getting resistance is that you advocate just cutting checks to all your relatives and maybe a few close friends.

I think most of us would ensure that our parents and close kin never had money worries again, but we wouldn't just cut them a check.

[MMMMMM]

I pretty much agree with your general thrust here, Goodie54.

If I got 300 million dollars I would give money to the people closest to me so that their lives would not be spent in never-ending financial struggle.

I really have a hard time imagining what I could do with more than 50 million, anyway. So for me the difference between having, say, 60 million and 90 million would be fairly nonexistent in terms of my own personal utility value. If I were in a position beyond complete personal financial freedom and security, I would certainly want for the people closest to me to not have to bust their butts working the rest of their lives, all the while worrying about health expenses and retirement as well as all the little other stuff.

[Goodie54]

How would you take care of them then? Cutting them a check seems like the best and easiest way.

I trust my friends and family would be responsible with the money I gave them, but even if they weren't, I couldn't care less what they do with the money.

Peace

Goodie

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Goodie, you're making a common mistake. You think that if you think something is the right thing to do, then everybody should think it is the right thing to do. And then you're casting dispersions on us for not feeling as you feel.

If I had given my parents a check for 1M, they would have torn it up and told me not to do that again. They would be more insulted than happy with my offer. They would appreciate the offer, but would want to know why I'm giving money to them when they're perfectly well off on their own. Yet you assume something different to be the case, because this is not in alignment with YOUR life, and the way YOU see things.

As I said in my prior post, if my parents ever need anything, I will do anything I can to help them. That was true before I won a lot of money, and it's still true now. But for me to just give them a bunch of money, well, I don't think that would make them happy. Some people think you should earn what you have, and are not comfortable with things they haven't earned. Maybe you and your family don't feel that way. Maybe me and my family do feel that way. Does that make me selfish, or does that make you lazy? No, it doesn't.

Some historical figure said something about good intentions. Something like there's nothing worse than a man of conviction with good intentions, and how such a man is much more trouble than a a man who is merely evil. Good intentions cause more trouble, in the end, they say. Probably because it's easy to fight and gain support to oppose somebody who is evil, but how to you oppose somebody with good intentions who is mistaken? Much harder to do. Your intentions may be good, but I think your implementation of those intentions would cause more harm than good to your family and close friends.

Somebody will surely chime in and give us an accurate quote for my poor memory. Thanks in advance for doing so.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[MMMMMM]

Hi Greg,

I see your points, and I'm not one to think that a few million is enough to be just giving away large sums of money. Personally, if I had a really huge amount, say 100 million, I think it would help my closest family and friends rather than hurt them were I to give them a couple of million each. And it wouldn't hurt me at all.

I'm not suggesting you should give a million to your parents, or any money to anybody else--what you've earned and won is yours, and you have a family to take care of, and I'd guess your parents are probably doing just fine anyway.

Many people are finding fulfillment in their careers or otherwise and wouldn't need the money either.

A lot of people really struggle, though, and have for many years. If I ever came into really huge money--many tens, or even hundreds, of millions--not just a few million--there are a few close people I'd want to help out. Besides, wouldn't I want them to be able to take vacations etc. with me too sometimes, and be able to be healthier and freer, instead of keeping their noses to the grindstone all the rest of their lives?

I'm not saying you're wrong, even about extremely large fortunes, if that's the way you feel. I just would feel differently if I ever were to get to the point where I had far more than I could ever reasonably spend--such as a hundred million. And I feel pretty confident that certain people I know would be more benefitted than harmed by a small portion of such a windfall.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in. It was fun watching you versus Devilfish on that episode in that hand. Well done hehe.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I'm not trying to say it's a mistake to help people, especially the people you love. But, in many cases, it is going to be a mistake to just give them money.

Buy them a house instead. Pay their tuition to college. Now, they're in a spot to help themselves the rest of their lives, even if this money is eventually gone for some reason.

Plus, if you give to your parents, but not your siblings, will they resent you for it? If you give to your siblings also, that problem goes away, but now will your aunts, uncles, nieces, or nephews resent you for not giving to them as well? No matter where you stop, those people on the next level out might be resentful and angry, even though they have no right to be like that.

Even if this example isn't a perfect analogy, I really do believe that those people who have good intentions are sometimes the most harmful. PETA and some of the really fringe eco-warrior groups are a good example. When you hear a story about a group like this breaking into a lab and freeing a bunch of lab animals, and then it turns out that those lab mice have been bred to require specific nutrients in their diet or they die, you realize how silly extremism can be. And it's not most of us who are extreme, it's the true believers who are certain they know what is best for you and me, and will force it upon us to "help" us. Those people scare me a lot more than a criminal-type.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

Somebody will surely chime in and give us an accurate quote for my poor memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here are a few gems that I found (and yes I do need to get alife):

[ QUOTE ]
"It is difficult to say who does you the most mischief: enemies with the worst intentions or friends with the best."

[/ QUOTE ]
-- Edward George Earle Bulwer-Lytton

[ QUOTE ]
"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding."

[/ QUOTE ]
-- Albert Camus

I rather like this one from Mark Twain:
[ QUOTE ]
"Half of the results of a good intentions are evil; half the results of an evil intention are good."

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg -- If one of these quotes is what you remembered then please share your reading list /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
How would you take care of them then? Cutting them a check seems like the best and easiest way.

I trust my friends and family would be responsible with the money I gave them, but even if they weren't, I couldn't care less what they do with the money.

Peace

Goodie

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its a bit of a straw man argument you're making there Goodie. Its one thing to talk about life changing money in the range of several million dollars. Its another to talk about simply silly, more than most of us could possibly spend in a life time, money.

Look, if I suddenly came into 20 billion dollars, I'd have no problem divying up a billion or so between the rest of my family. if I came into say, 3 million? I'm probably not giving money to my family unless somebody got into financial difficulty.

I notice in you example you leave yourself with 50 million. Not too shabby. But what do you do if your windfall is just a 3-5 million to begin with?

Maybe you still give it away, in which case good on you. Just apples and oranges is all I'm saying.


--Zetack

In my honest opinion, you are greedy as hell. You make tons and tons of money sitting at a computer playing a game, and you WONT EVEN GIVE YOUR FRIENDS ANY MONEY? My gosh, how cheap can you be, please... your no friend. Thos guys are college students (you dont count cuz your making good money) and they need the money more that you do. Books, tuition, entertainment, they need help man. Im being serious, you need to start loaning/giving your friends some money. Whats $300, please, how cheap can you be.

Greg with all due respect, if you didnt give your parents a buttload of money, you need to rethink your priorities. Seriously man, im happy you won, i really am, i was pulling for you since day 2 of the ME, but when you say "i'll do what I can to help if they need anything" thats just messed up. Anyway, congrats on all your winnings, and maybe see you at Casino AZ or the Fort if your ever in AZ. Later

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I would be trying to create the highest level of happiness for all the important people in my life.


[/ QUOTE ]

So money can buy happiness now?

Funny, I thought it only bought gratification.

[Jorge10]

Well its obviuous you are a gimmick account, but anyway.

If I had a dollar for every story I read of guys developing drinking problems, getting divorced, or just screwing up their lives after winning the lottery itd have those 100 million already.

If you just give people a bunch of money its going to be really bad and you might say, but they are getting a bunch of money how can it be bad? Well money usually changes people, there are very few that can stay grounded.

Also as Greg said, if you give someone money then someone else gets angry that you didnt give them money, and its a never ending chain of anger and jealousy not really directed at you, but at the people that got money.

The reality is this, life isnt that simple as ill just give millions of dollars away and everyone will be happy. Life is much much more complex than that. Giving someone money will just make them quit everything and decide that they want to do nothing, but just live off the money you gave them. I like what Greg said, buy them a house, pay their tuition, do something positive for them, but dont just give them money randomly if they dont need it, it will only make things much worse.

[Goodie54]

Just to be perfectly clear. I am not in the same category or even close to the extremists you describe.

Your point about your parents ripping up the check and being insulted at the thought of you handing them money is well taken. I certainly see your point and to be honest, my parents would definetly feel the same way and if I didn't know that the money I gave them would allow them to live happier for the rest of thier lives, I certainly would not argue with them. I would take back the money I offered. I do, however, disagree with your thoughts about good intentions. I don't think they apply to the example I outlined. If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.

Back to your original point which was that people assumed that you had given some of your new found fortune to your parents. I don't particularly have a problem with this assumtion since I do believe that most people that have a good releationship with they're parents would do so. This is originally what I was speaking to and I stand by that assertion.

Peace

Goodie

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Thanks for supplying some good quotes, all of them on point. None of them was exactly what I was thinking of, but they all say essentially the same thing.

You can't argue with righteousness, and the righteous man who decides to "help" you, may easily do you more harm than the evil man who tries to help himself at your expense. And most importantly, you know where you stand with the evil man, and you can possibly get help from others to defeat him. How do you convince people to help you defeat somebody with obviously good intentions? It's much harder to do, and thus harder to stop.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to be perfectly clear. I am not in the same category or even close to the extremists you describe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not mean to imply that you were close to these sorts. But you were giving the impression that you were in the same category. You seemed to be implying that I was wrong, and that you couldn't see how anybody could think like me. That any good person would do as you say you would do. And that sounds like righteousness, and I consider righteousness to be a form of evil, but one that is very well disguised.

[ QUOTE ]
I do, however, disagree with your thoughts about good intentions. I don't think they apply to the example I outlined. If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are putting yourself in my shoes, rather than seeing me for who I am, and the shoes I am in. I am not you, and my family is not your family. That must be why you can't see how I "could consider not doing this".

[ QUOTE ]
Back to your original point which was that people assumed that you had given some of your new found fortune to your parents. I don't particularly have a problem with this assumtion since I do believe that most people that have a good releationship with they're parents would do so. This is originally what I was speaking to and I stand by that assertion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you come across as a bit condescending and righteous here. This paragraph almost says that I must not have a good relationship with my parents, or I would have given them money. And that is absolutely a mistake. I have a very good relationship with my parents, but neither of us would ever consider giving money to the other absent something close to an emergency. We believe in self-sufficiency, and that just giving things to people tends to make them lazy as opposed to happy. Teach people, help people improve themselves, but don't just give them money; that is the way we tend to think.

My parents would have gone through a lot of hardship to put me through college, if that had been necessary. And I would go through a lot of hardship to help them in such a manner, if they needed it. But neither of us expects a penny from the other barring such need.

Maybe your family would be happier if you gave them a bunch of money. However, once past the short term, I doubt it would work.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were to come into hundreds of millions of dollars, spliting a good portion of that up with friends and family is the only way I see to live the rest of my life. I honestly can't see how someone could consider not doing this. If there were some of my friends or family that were proud and did not want to accept the donation, I would honor thier wishes, but to not offer, I couldn't live with myself.


[/ QUOTE ]

You couldnt live with yourself if you didnt give them money?

Wouldnt you feel worse if a chain of hatred and jealousy was created because you didnt give the friend of your friend money? Or wouldnt you feel guilty because now all the people in your family that once were happy are splitting up and generally just fighting over the money they got? Or disappointed with the fact that a lot of them do nothing anymore?

I dont get why you cant see that giving a bunch of money to certain people can really screw up their lives, not everyone thinks like you and is going to make good use of the money, some will snap and decide they no longer should follow the law or remain with their families. I would feel much worse if the money I gave out caused families to end and landed some people in rehab or jail.

Im not saying all will just snap, but some will. Thats why you dont give people money blindly, you help them by paying for their homes or something along those lines, but handing out money is madness, plus a point no one ever made is that, some are going to blow thru the money and ask for more.

[MMMMMM]

All good points, Greg--and I very much like your idea about giving them a house or college tuition instead. Such things are of lasting value, and would help that person substantially; and with less risk of dissipation, or of arousing envy in others.

By the way, the classic quote by a PETA spokesperson, which sticks in my mind, is: "Every day is 9/11 for chickens."

Also, there was a fund-raising event at a Florida aquarium. One of the hors-douevres or snacks served was sushi. PETA issued a statement saying that eating sushi in the presence of fish was offensive, and that doing so would be akin to to eating poodle-burgers in the presence of dogs at a dog show.

[Python49]

[ QUOTE ]
In my honest opinion, you are greedy as hell. You make tons and tons of money sitting at a computer playing a game, and you WONT EVEN GIVE YOUR FRIENDS ANY MONEY? My gosh, how cheap can you be, please... your no friend. Thos guys are college students (you dont count cuz your making good money) and they need the money more that you do. Books, tuition, entertainment, they need help man. Im being serious, you need to start loaning/giving your friends some money. Whats $300, please, how cheap can you be.

[/ QUOTE ]
For your own sake I hope you are indeed a gimmick accont. If not you just need to learn more about life in general.

[Goodie54]

I apologize if my posts have been condescending. I certainly was not intending them to be. I guess my problem comes from not seeing your point of view. I have not encountered someone in my lifetime that considered having a great deal of money, even if not earned, would make them lazy. From my perspective, life is not about working. It's about living and raising a family and treating people with respect. Now, in my experience (which of course is limited to playing poker with you and reading about you on the internet), I am confident that you perform these tasks quite well.

My standpoint is that raising a family, treating people with respect and what not, for a good person, is much easier to do when you have a good deal of money. Money doesn't cure all ills, but it certainly makes it easier to live a full life and help those closest to you.

I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Please accept my apology for implying that you don't have a good releationship with your parents. From your response, it just seems like you have a relationship with them that I have not encounted and had not considered.

Peace

Goodie

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In my poker career theres been times where id literally loan my mom tons of cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, unless it was pennies, you are a weathy, weathy man.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, weathy??

and its ok b/c my mom has a good real estate business and is just cash poor, ya know...'bout 24k all tolled to the laon...she also did at one point take care of me for well...my entire life lol...so that earns her no interest although she says she'll pay the full tax on it for me...i say thats fine.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Baio, nice one. running it in slow mo for Dcif.

bwana

[Temp Hutter]

[ QUOTE ]
Goodie, you're making a common mistake. You think that if you think something is the right thing to do, then everybody should think it is the right thing to do. And then you're casting dispersions on us for not feeling as you feel.

If I had given my parents a check for 1M, they would have torn it up and told me not to do that again. They would be more insulted than happy with my offer. They would appreciate the offer, but would want to know why I'm giving money to them when they're perfectly well off on their own. Yet you assume something different to be the case, because this is not in alignment with YOUR life, and the way YOU see things.

As I said in my prior post, if my parents ever need anything, I will do anything I can to help them. That was true before I won a lot of money, and it's still true now. But for me to just give them a bunch of money, well, I don't think that would make them happy. Some people think you should earn what you have, and are not comfortable with things they haven't earned. Maybe you and your family don't feel that way. Maybe me and my family do feel that way. Does that make me selfish, or does that make you lazy? No, it doesn't.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with Greg here. Giving someone money does not necessarily make them happy. I won a decent amount of money last year in poker tournaments and the thought never even crossed my mind to give my parents money. They have other priorities in life that make them happy and they are not in need of money. If their situation would somehow change, then I would be first in line (along with the rest of my family) to jump in and help them.

If you have ever seen the Seinfeld episode where Jerry and his dad keep trying to give each other money - that is what would happen if I tried to slip my parents some extra cash. It would turn into a comedy routine because they don't want my money - I am their son and they still want to give me money even though I am fine financially.

The other thing I thought of is age. This issue may be seen differently depending on your age and what stage of life you are in. My relationship with my parents is far different now that I have two kids of my own then when I was living with them or when I had only been out on my own for a few years.

Temp

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Fair enough, and well said.

I knew it was very likely that the implications in your posts were not intended. It is hard to see beyond our own experiences, for you, for me, for everybody. It is something I am trying to get better at for many reasons. One good reason is that you become better at reading your opponents if you become better at understanding viewpoints that are alien to your own.

Always nice to have a friendly debate.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, the classic quote by a PETA spokesperson, which sticks in my mind, is: "Every day is 9/11 for chickens."

Also, there was a fund-raising event at a Florida aquarium. One of the hors-douevres or snacks served was sushi. PETA issued a statement saying that eating sushi in the presence of fish was offensive, and that doing so would be akin to to eating poodle-burgers in the presence of dogs at a dog show.

[/ QUOTE ]

These people really don't understand the lack of intelligence in animals, apparently. Do they actually think that the fish comprehend that we are sitting there, outside the tank, and eating other fish? I sure don't believe that to be a possibility. As such, how can it be offensive? You can't offend something or somebody who completely lacks comprehension of what you're doing or saying. It is impossible to offend a fish.

If PETA should ever win the day, and make us all vegatarians, I guess the next fringe group will be those advocating for the rights of plants. sigh.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Goodie54]

Wouldn't a chain of hatred and jealosy be more likely if you took your 200 million, used it all for yourself, and hung everyone you loved out to dry?

You tell me which is worse. Giving enough money to all that are important to you so that they can either retire or pursue an alternate career that makes them happy and proves fullfilling OR

You using all the money for yourself and all the people important to you have to continue to grind it out everyday at jobs that niether make them happy nor are fullfilling. Obviously this is not the case with all of my friends and family, but most of them would rather be doing something else besides working. Why not give them that chance?

I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.

And if you think that this money will cause someone to "no longer follow the law" then first of all, why are they an important part of your life and second of all, don't lend money to that person. And yes, I realize this disgrimination will cause problems, but It's not enough for me to agree that giving the money to no one is a good idea.

Peace

Goodie

[DesertCat]

[ QUOTE ]


I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's interesting when someone who doesn't have any money thinks that money is the key to happiness. It really isn't. Finding what you love and striving to be good at it costs nothing.

If I gave away millions to my family, I know of at least one member who would be dead within months from a drug overdose. Others would never leave the couch.

One of my poorest family members is driving with a suspended license. Her license was suspended because she couldn't afford to pay her traffic tickets. Both traffic tickets were for not wearing a seatbelt. Despite her tough financial situation, she and her husband just bought a new car. Previously she inherited $20,000. It was gone in three months.

How can I help this person by giving them money? She won't even help herself by buckling a seat belt.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't a chain of hatred and jealosy be more likely if you took your 200 million, used it all for yourself, and hung everyone you loved out to dry?

You tell me which is worse. Giving enough money to all that are important to you so that they can either retire or pursue an alternate career that makes them happy and proves fullfilling OR

You using all the money for yourself and all the people important to you have to continue to grind it out everyday at jobs that niether make them happy nor are fullfilling. Obviously this is not the case with all of my friends and family, but most of them would rather be doing something else besides working. Why not give them that chance?

I'll roll the dice everytime that one or more of my friends and family will not handle the money well. If the rest leave thier crappy jobs and pursue a happy existance, it would all be worth it.

And if you think that this money will cause someone to "no longer follow the law" then first of all, why are they an important part of your life and second of all, don't lend money to that person. And yes, I realize this disgrimination will cause problems, but It's not enough for me to agree that giving the money to no one is a good idea.

Peace

Goodie

[/ QUOTE ]

I still am puzzled by why you keep using these extreme examples. I think a lot of people would do different things with a sudden windfall of 200 million vrs 3-5 million.

It didn't occur to me that Greg had given his folks money after his win, because from what I gleaned in the stories it didn't sound like his folks particularly needed it. On the other hand David Williams has apparently helped his mom out a lot, but it sounds like she did need it.

If I won a few million, I probably wouldn't be giving my parents money unless they had a big reversal of financial fortunes because they simply aren't in a place where they need it. On the other hand, if I came into 200 million I'd probably go to them, and go, look this is just silly mad money, and I'd feel a lot better if you guys would accept some from me.

I don't know whether they would or not, because again, they don't need it.

--Zetack

[Goodie54]

You obviously didn't read my post where I said that if I were to win 3-5 million, most of my friends and family would have to fend for themselves. Nevertheless, my parents would be taken care of. If they chose not to accept it, so be it, but the offer would be made nonetheless.

Peace

Goodie

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

In my honest opinion, you are greedy as hell. You make tons and tons of money sitting at a computer playing a game, and you WONT EVEN GIVE YOUR FRIENDS ANY MONEY? My gosh, how cheap can you be, please... your no friend. Thos guys are college students

[/ QUOTE ]


Lets change this up a bit.

Lets say you're in college with a fairly 'normal' amount of money but more than the average college-student.
You have a friend of yours who doesn't have as much money as you...but he isn't exactly homeless or anything.


2 or 3x a week this guy comes up to you and says "Give me a dollar."
Yes. I can afford to give him a dollar.
But if he is constantly just asking for me to give him a dollar i am very quickly going to get annoyed and he is no longer going to be my friend.



Regarding the discussion of giving the dough to your parents:
My parents are doing just fine and dandy financially so they really don't need anything. They are both very comfortably retired.
I could certainly afford to buy them some fancy present at XMas though.


If the situation were different than OF COURSE I would cut them a check.

Sammy Sosa came from a very poor home with 14 kids and no indoor plumbing (or something like that).
Now his mom and siblings have all they could ever hope for.
Very nice house, nice cars, jewelry etc.
And he built some other shops in that area too.


It's all a matter of circumstances.


In my situation - cutting a million-dollar check for my Dad just because I could suddenly afford to do so would be roughly equivilent of him cutting a huge check for me right now.
I don't think he should cut a giant check for me right now and would find it to be quite silly if he did.

[TomBrooks]

I transferred $100 to a good friend's Party account last November. He's a college student. I used to talk to or see him almost weekly. In December, he lost his mother. He was depressed and asked me to transfer another $100 to him. I knew his financial situation would be really precarious then, but what could I say, I did it. He hasn't called me or answered his phone (caller ID, he knows it's me) or returned my phone calls in ten months. I don't even care about the money so much. It's too bad I lost my friend. Maybe he'll pay me back someday, but in the meantime I realize he probably can't afford to pay me back and he's probably too embarressed to talk to me.

It's probably best not to let anyone know you are doing well unless they have money too. Then the issue is less likely to even come up.

[rchandra]

Probably not replying to the right post thread-wise, sorry.

Anyway, I don't see why any poker tournament winnings should be shared. You risked your money, and more often than not you'll get nothing, even assuming you're better than average. That one huge cash is going to be partially offset by smaller losses. This is also true for lotteries, but due to differing utilities of different amount of money it's not such a big deal there.

Now, if somebody close needs the money, I'll break my bankroll for them. They will pay me back if / when they can. If they can't, no problems. But I'm not randomly giving money unless I trip over a sack of gold. (So I didn't "work" for it or risk anything myself .. it's truly found money.).

In the more extreme case where the amount is so ridiculous that it makes no difference to me (and this amount is different for everybody) then I might start offering. But definitely only for people who have been there for me in the past .. parents and siblings, some close friends.
But it's highly unlikely I'd do anything where I could win such an amount. I don't play the lotto and I'm not entering a 1M person tournament with a 10K + 100 buyin, winner-take-all. If someday I enter and win the WSOP I'll feel I earned my prize and want to keep it all (again, if somebody close needs some specifically that's different).

Rahul Chandra

[KaneKungFu123]

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girls are just not allowed to pay on dates as it should be.

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LMFAO.....

What a great thread--First post from a rgp man tired of the crap

--1) How many of u who say you would help out family if you had 100 million would help out the same family if you make 25 k or 50 k? (I am not being self righteous, but my mom is disabled and lives alone and i help when i can with time and money.) If you Dont give it now i really dont think you will give it then.
2) Whoever said give rather than loan to the ones you love are right. Do or dont give it ito immediate family, but if you love them, dont loan itto them.
3) I know people like Greg's family who would be offended, and while i absolutely dont understand them, I do respect them. I just dont "GET" them. Prolly have hte higher moral ground though.
4) Lotsa money at once would absolutely kill alot of people. Don't believe? Google "lottery winner's stories" and read about the destruction in SOME of their lives. I would definately love to try, but money is a very very powerful thing.
5)The friends? Thats a tough one--it is hard to say no to someone u truly like, but how would you ever get away from feeling used? I would love to give my friends and family stuff, but the quickest way not to get it would be to try to greed it out of me.

6) I think that the diff is partly socioeconomic background too. My family of origin is poor white folk. I was the first in my family to graduate high school. then college, and soon the first to get my master's degree. ,My family of origin is very dysfuntional. While I would help many of them to varying degrees (especially mom) some people will never really get up and do anything with their life. Money wont solve that. I would however love to help some of the ones who have worked alltheir live sfor grunts wages (albeit becauwe they didnt make more of their lives). I would guess that many of the aforementioned parents on this thread would be insulted because they have pride in their own achievements and do not wqant them demeaned. Also, most probably are solid middle/middle and upper middle class.
These socioeconomic classes are worlds apart in worldview (of course) and also in values. Not better or worse, just different.

How is that for a ramble from a newb. I hear u guys are real tough on newbs here, but i can take it--lay it on me.
Peace.

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It is impossible to offend a fish.


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"You stupid [censored], how could you call with that?" usually does the trick.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.