3/6 to 5/10 - yawn...

[kapw7]

I have around 10K hands at Party 3/6SH. Decent winrate but most important I never felt to be outplayed (more than a very very few cases anyway) or be totally wrong with reads or miss too many value bets or call too much etc.

I have 300+BB for 5/10 and what's more important I feel like I'm missing out as 5/10 appears to be much more "juicy" but not much tougher than 3/6. Of course I might be totally wrong and this is where I would appreciate some input.

Is 5/10 much more agressive? Will someone 3-bet or cap me on a semi-bluff? Are there less passive players to value bet? Do you call down more HU? Is it much harder to find a good table?

[DaSpade]

How many tables do you play?

[kapw7]

Usually 3 but never more. I hate multitabling. Why is this important?

K

[giant sand]

Being a 3-6 player at the moment, i'd be interested to know what difference there is in a 5-10 game.

I switched from 2-4 a couple of months ago, and while people have said on this forum that the step up to 3-6 is hard, I've still found plenty of weak/tight and calling stations on the tables I've played on

We've won the Ashes, by the way

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
Being a 3-6 player at the moment, i'd be interested to know what difference there is in a 5-10 game.

I switched from 2-4 a couple of months ago, and while people have said on this forum that the step up to 3-6 is hard, I've still found plenty of weak/tight and calling stations on the tables I've played on

[/ QUOTE ]

Same story here. I was playing PS 2/4 6 before

[ QUOTE ]
We've won the Ashes, by the way

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats. It came home finally. I never understood cricket although I live in the UK for the last 5 years. But thinking about that I never learned proper English as well. And poker...

[colgin]

300+ BBs seems like a short roll for $5/10 (unless by 300+ you mean closer to 500). However, take a shot if you feel up to it and are ready to move back down if you don't run well. If I were you I would ask myself how am I going to feel if I drop 100Bs. If you can shrug it off and rebuild at $3/6 then fine. If it is going to cause you financial and/or emotional distress then you may want to consider waiting until you have a bigger roll.

[BreakfastBurrito]

[ QUOTE ]
Is 5/10 much more agressive? Will someone 3-bet or cap me on a semi-bluff? Are there less passive players to value bet? Do you call down more HU? Is it much harder to find a good table?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experiences, 5/10 is MUCH more aggressive. I've had sessions where I feel like I'm being checkraised on the turn around 75% of the time. People will absolutely 3bet and cap on semi or just complete bluffs. Comparatively, 3/6 was heaven. So many weak players to value bet, donk bets almost always meant nothing, you could basically raise everything and run the table over as long as you would occassionally check behind on your whiffs. But try out 5/10, see what you think yourself.

[DaSpade]

[ QUOTE ]
I have around 10K hands at Party 3/6SH. Decent winrate but most important I never felt to be outplayed (more than a very very few cases anyway) or be totally wrong with reads or miss too many value bets or call too much etc.

I have 300+BB for 5/10 and what's more important I feel like I'm missing out as 5/10 appears to be much more "juicy" but not much tougher than 3/6. Of course I might be totally wrong and this is where I would appreciate some input.

Is 5/10 much more agressive? Will someone 3-bet or cap me on a semi-bluff? Are there less passive players to value bet? Do you call down more HU? Is it much harder to find a good table?

[/ QUOTE ]

I myself am not comfortable to make the jump with 300BB for 5/10 6max and 10K hands at 3/6. Definitely not comfortable to 3-table a new limit with that roll. FWIW, I would suggest you have atleast a 500BB roll and may be another 10K hands at 3/6. But, hey if you feel confident in your game, it is up to you. Also you need to identify any major leaks in your game and fix them before making a jump as it will be much more expensive.

I might not be much experienced at 5/10 w/ only 5K hands so far, but I can tell you this much - the games are more aggressive, bluffing and semi-bluffing is prevalent. The swings will be cruel, if you are playing at an aggressive table. FWIW, I made the move to 5/10 w about 850BB and over 25K hands at 3/6 6max and I just play 2 tables, that too following good table selection.

GL

[gildwulf]

This is the 5/10. If you can play against these guys you are ready for the 5/10:

***** Hand History for Game 2704985283 *****
$5/$10 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, September 13, 16:04:50 EDT 2005
Table Table 29473 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 5: The_Jopker ( $457.50 )
Seat 2: B_E_L_L_A ( $187.50 )
Seat 3: pokerdba ( $411 )
Seat 6: LarryJoeFish ( $267 )
Seat 1: ofcourselose ( $39 )
ofcourselose posts small blind [$2].
B_E_L_L_A posts big blind [$5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to The_Jopker [ Qc Kd ]
>You have options at Table 11353 (6 max) Table!.
pokerdba folds.
The_Jopker raises [$10].
LarryJoeFish raises [$15].
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
ofcourselose calls [$13].
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
dude_ster has joined the table.
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
ofcourselose: u beat QJ there?
B_E_L_L_A calls [$10].
The_Jopker raises [$10].
LarryJoeFish calls [$5].
ofcourselose calls [$5].
B_E_L_L_A calls [$5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, As, 9d ]
>You have options at Table 10705 (6 max) Table!.
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
ofcourselose checks.
B_E_L_L_A bets [$5].
The_Jopker calls [$5].
LarryJoeFish folds.
>You have options at Table 10705 (6 max) Table!.
ofcourselose calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
ofcourselose checks.
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
B_E_L_L_A bets [$10].
The_Jopker calls [$10].
ofcourselose folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
B_E_L_L_A bets [$10].
The_Jopker calls [$10].
>You have options at Table 40936 (6 max) Table!.
B_E_L_L_A shows [ 2s, 3h ] a pair of threes.
The_Jopker shows [ Qc, Kd ] a pair of kings.
The_Jopker wins $133 from the main pot with a pair of kings.

[k_squared]

going down 100+ BB at 5-10 is really not that rare. You have to be able to ride that wave and still play well to succeed.

And yes people will 3 bet you on bluffs in certain situations. Blind play can be very tricky and aggressive.

oh, and running well for 10,000 hands is really not terribly significant. One major downswing can change running well into running poorly over that many hands! If you won 2BB per 100 that is a total of 200BB's won. If in the next 2000 hands you lose 100BB's (not that crazy a proposition) you will now have a win rate of less than 1BB/100.... which is not to say that is bad, but rather to illustrate how quickly those numbers can change when looking at a small sample.

The other factors are of course whether or not you can psychologically handle moving back down if you lose, and how important making this money is to you. If you can gamble away all 300BB's and just rebuild if you lose then taking a shot might be okay, but if you can't do that then I would wait.

k_squared

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is 5/10 much more agressive? Will someone 3-bet or cap me on a semi-bluff? Are there less passive players to value bet? Do you call down more HU? Is it much harder to find a good table?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experiences, 5/10 is MUCH more aggressive. I've had sessions where I feel like I'm being checkraised on the turn around 75% of the time. People will absolutely 3bet and cap on semi or just complete bluffs. Comparatively, 3/6 was heaven. So many weak players to value bet, donk bets almost always meant nothing, you could basically raise everything and run the table over as long as you would occassionally check behind on your whiffs. But try out 5/10, see what you think yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like hell. What do others think (Please no posts like 5/10 is heaven compared to 10/20 etc). So I absolutely have to take a shot which is the appropriate action as colgin noted before. I don't rely on poker for income at all so the only think that can be crashed is my ego. (Thats worse tho /images/graemlins/laugh.gif )

[kapw7]

Just converted your hand:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (11.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 2s 3h (one pair, threes).
Hero has Qc Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.50 BB. </font>

[Catt]

I don't think you played that hand very well. But it turned out nicely /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kapw7]

With no reads I would not cap PF and would fold the flop.

[Alobar]

5/10 is a pretty decent step up from 3/6 in terms of skill. For the most part most of the players still suck, so its still really profitable, but there are a ton of TAGs who multitable it all day, and it really is considerably more aggresive than 3/6. If you are pretty good you arent going to have any probs making money there, but you do have to be pretty decent to have a good winrate. Also, Id want more tan 300BB if I was to play there full time. But if you have questions about the game, why not just take a shot at it? play a table or 2 and see how it goes.

[gildwulf]

Regardless of how you think I played the hand, the point I was trying to make is that at 5/10 you have to deal with super lags and learn to trust your reads and go with them. It's not like calling with KQo on that flop is a standard play in my book, but the table at the time (Villain is 80/20/4. SB is 50/20/2.2, I've been playing with him an hour and he hasn't checkraised me once) warranted a stab at the turn at least.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
With no reads I would not cap PF and would fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

See above

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Just converted your hand:


[/ QUOTE ]

For those who have been here long enough, the original HH is more interesting.

[joker122]

yeah, the jump from 3/6 to 5/10 isn't nearly as dramatic as 5/10 to 10/20, and from the few thousand hands i have at 3/6 i thought it played alot like 5/10. i'd say just give it a shot.

[Catt]

I'd be terrified of the guy who 3-bet behind you pre-flop.

[tolbiny]

"I don't rely on poker for income at all so the only think that can be crashed is my ego. (Thats worse tho )"

No, its really not.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
"I don't rely on poker for income at all so the only think that can be crashed is my ego. (Thats worse tho )"

No, its really not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I'm just being dramatic.

And thanks everyone for your responses.
I think I'm not that confident yet, otherwise I would not be here asking but playing 5/10. Ill try to take everyone's advice on board first.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of how you think I played the hand, the point I was trying to make is that at 5/10 you have to deal with super lags and learn to trust your reads and go with them. It's not like calling with KQo on that flop is a standard play in my book, but the table at the time (Villain is 80/20/4. SB is 50/20/2.2, I've been playing with him an hour and he hasn't checkraised me once) warranted a stab at the turn at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

You give the stats for the SB and BB but neglect to tell us anything about your real problem on the flop, which is the button, sitting quietly behind you having three-bet your pre-flop raise. He's the guy marked with a likely ace. This is not a hand where you "went with a read". It's a hand where you clicked away almost at random and got lucky.

Your flop call here is terrible because you need there to be no ace out around 50% of the time and that is clearly not going to be the case with all those players seeing a capped flop.

Yes the BB played terribly preflop and probably shouldn't have bet post-flop either, but to hold this hand up as an example of a "typical" $5/10 table or the right way to counter extreme aggression is just wrong in my opinion. You overplayed preflop, made a loose call on the flop and then did the only non-suicidal thing on turn and river.

Guy.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regardless of how you think I played the hand, the point I was trying to make is that at 5/10 you have to deal with super lags and learn to trust your reads and go with them. It's not like calling with KQo on that flop is a standard play in my book, but the table at the time (Villain is 80/20/4. SB is 50/20/2.2, I've been playing with him an hour and he hasn't checkraised me once) warranted a stab at the turn at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

You give the stats for the SB and BB but neglect to tell us anything about your real problem on the flop, which is the button, sitting quietly behind you having three-bet your pre-flop raise. He's the guy marked with a likely ace. This is not a hand where you "went with a read". It's a hand where you clicked away almost at random and got lucky.

Your flop call here is terrible because you need there to be no ace out around 50% of the time and that is clearly not going to be the case with all those players seeing a capped flop.

Yes the BB played terribly preflop and probably shouldn't have bet post-flop either, but to hold this hand up as an example of a "typical" $5/10 table or the right way to counter extreme aggression is just wrong in my opinion. You overplayed preflop, made a loose call on the flop and then did the only non-suicidal thing on turn and river.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right.

I play 3/6 70% of the time and 5/10 30%. I have found solid players and maniacs at both levels. 5/10 players overall tend to be more aggressive w/better starting hands - they also seem to read your play better than 3/6 players. This is in general.

[mdeck]

I found transitioning to 5/10 to be relatively smooth, though I ran really well at 3/6 and had over 1000BB bankroll for 5/10.

With good table selection I didn't notice a big difference except there was a lot more turn checkraising and it didn't mean nearly the same thing as in 3/6, but other than that I actually multi'ed 2 5/10 and 2 3/6 for a while, following certain buddylisters.

edit: the swings hurt a LOT more at 5/10 than at 3/6, at least they did to me psychologically

Transitioning to the 10/20 has not been so easy http://www.nd.edu/~ndecker/emo.gif

[imported_Jim C]

Well, I don't post as much as others here, but here is my experience.

I found the Party 5/10-6Max to be almost identical to the 3/6-6Max, with the possible exception that there is more outrageous maniacal bluffing (capping the turn with 9 high, or 33, etc), which means you need to be willing to call down with anything halfway decent. I've found the vast majority of opponents to be truly horrible.

I'm not a huge winner in the game, though, with only about a 1.5 BB/100 over about 45,000 hands.

I think you should try it. I needed to make very few modifications to my game. I spend no time at all on table selection. I am willing to show down middle-pair, weak-kicker or even bottom-pair against the maniacs, though, depending on the situation, which results in pretty big swings.

I don't mind playing against the maniacs. I guess there are probably more maniacs in these games, but if you know how to handle them it will be a breeze for you. The section on isolating the maniacs preflop in HPFAP is great for that. Since they will routinely keep coming at you with garbage, you've got to stick with them if you've got anything at all.

FWIW,

Jim

[nervous]

From my experience 3/6 to 5/10 is pretty smooth, just a bit more aggressive, and you'll be put in a few more iffy spots more often, but I'd say if you can beat 3/6, you can beat 5/10.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 is a pretty decent step up from 3/6 in terms of skill. For the most part most of the players still suck, so its still really profitable, but there are a ton of TAGs who multitable it all day, and it really is considerably more aggresive than 3/6. If you are pretty good you arent going to have any probs making money there, but you do have to be pretty decent to have a good winrate. Also, Id want more tan 300BB if I was to play there full time. But if you have questions about the game, why not just take a shot at it? play a table or 2 and see how it goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's an interesting perspective. i didn't get this impression from my breif experience at 3/6.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just converted your hand:


[/ QUOTE ]

For those who have been here long enough, the original HH is more interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes indeed.