Flopped straight and a slowplaying question

[ElSapo]

Last hand from this morning’s session. I’m in the SB with 89h. Two limpers, I complete and BB checks. A light from above shines down briefly on me and my computer, and the flop comes 7TJ. Not too shabby. Two diamonds out there, and could be a higher straight draw. I bet out and get two callers. Turn is Ah. I bet out, and one fold, one call. River is the 5d, flush and higher straight is possible but I bet out and am simply called. The hand is good.

This is about as straightforward as you can get, I know – flop the straight and keep firing away. But it got me wondering about slowplaying. Now, this isn’t a great situation obviously because the Ace could have made a higher straight, and the diamond could have made a flush. So, with these cards and that flop, while maybe check-raising may be best if I was sure it would get bet, I think I had to just start betting and charge anyone drawing. But if, for instance, you flop the straight with 67 and the flop comes 458 all rainbow, do you start slow-playing here? At this point, my logic is that the only draws are backdoor flushes and to a lower straight. If someone has two pair, or trips, they aren’t going anywhere. I can’t see laying down a set until things get seriously scary, and two pair is gonna go until the end in most LL games as well. If you get outdrawn my trips, in my mind there wasn’t anything to be done about it. He’s simply not going away. So do you factor this in, and in a situation like that maybe check-call the flop and try and checkraise the turn?

[Bob T.]

Nice hand. I think betting the flop, betting the turn, and finally betting the river is the right play here. The easiest way to build a big pot isn't by checkraising, it is by three betting. On this hand, suppose someone had diamonds, or maybe Q9 suited, and raised the flop for a free card. Now you can three bet, and they still have to chase with their draw. Whenever you slowplay, and then checkraise the turn, you are screaming 'BIG HAND, BIG HAND', and most everyone except for maybe me is going to figure it out, and get out of the way.

Whenever you are ahead, and you are playing limit poker, if a street goes by, and you don't get money into the pot, you have left an opportunity go by. I think that you make a lot more money, by betting here, than by slowplaying. You will bet a lot weaker hands than a straight here, and people will call, and even raise with hands that can beat those other hands, but not the one you hold this time. Bet, bet, bet, and on somedays you will get a three bet in, and win a big pot.

If it is headsup, with an aggressive opponent, I might slowplay, and try and trap him for an extra bet somewhere, but other than that, I am going to play this straightforward.

[Nottom]

In general, slow playing a straight is a bad idea because they are so vulnerable. In your example case however, I would probably bet out the flop and hope that an Ace or King comes on the turn and go for the checkraise there. Its all pretty player dependant and simply betting on every street can't be too wrong in most cases.

[SoBeDude]

With 2 diamonds on the flop, you have to bet and be aggressive. Don't let a flush-draw get a free card here. With the flush draw on the board you have to make sure you make anyone drawing pay to try to beat you.

This is a very bad spot to slowplay IMO. If it was a rainbow flop AND you feel confident someone else will bet, then maybe a slowplay is OK, but only if both conditions are met.

Just my thoughts

-Scott

[Homer]

I would probably bet out the flop and hope that an Ace or King comes on the turn and go for the checkraise there.

I would hope for an Ace or King on the turn as well, but not so I could checkraise. Instead, I would bet, hoping to be raised so that I could three-bet.

-- Homer

[Nottom]

true ... i guess i've been playing against too many passive player recently who would never dream of raising with something as weak as top pair.

[Homer]

i guess i've been playing against too many passive player recently who would never dream of raising with something as weak as top pair.

Okay, fair enough. But they will at least bet it, right? It really sucks when you go for a checkraise and it gets checked around. That pains me more than getting sucked out on.

-- Homer

[bernie]

1st. you dont really have position to pull a charge the draws extra on the turn play

2nd..

you have to be sure someone will bet if you check on the turn

3rd

they were probably suprised when you showed your hand. not putting you on a flopped str8.

4th..

as homer said, nothing beats that sinking feeling of letting the turn gt checked through

5th

what will they put you on next time you bet out like this?

"Now, this isn’t a great situation obviously because the Ace could have made a higher straight, and the diamond could have made a flush."

this has nothing to do with whether or not to slowplay. no matter how you bet, those cards were going to come. it wouldnt change anything. position and the right opponents against you factor in waiting for the turn. even if there are draws out

"I can’t see laying down a set until things get seriously scary, "

it would take alot for me to laydown a set. itd have to be a very tight player along with other factors to convince me that he has an overset. which is the only hand id lay a set down to.

just some thoughts...

i thought ya played it fine

b

[SoBeDude]

it would take alot for me to laydown a set. itd have to be a very tight player along with other factors to convince me that he has an overset. which is the only hand id lay a set down to.

I believe it's in HPFAP that they say you're not making much of a mistake if you Never lay down a set.

You have to have a very solid read on your opponent or a truely horrible board and lots of action to contemplate it.

-Scott

[Louie Landale]

Consider this: the opponent doesn't have enough to call a single bet and you are considering slow-playing hoping he catches up. Well, if he doesn't have enough to call then he surely has few outs, which means the chances of him improving are pretty slim. So "slow-playing" cannot net much vis-a-vis this player: if he improves 10% of the time and will give you a whopping 4BB if he connects, your EV per attempt is only .4BB.

Now compare that to the player that DOES have enough to call (he thinks), but has only a 10% chance to actually beat you. Betting yeilds you 90% of a sb, which is .45bb; so checking costs you .45bb per attempt.

Now compare that to the player that knows he's only got a 10% chance to beat you and will correctly fold. You are risking the size of the pot*10% when you check; so if there are 6sb in the pot you are affectively giving this player .3bb when you check.

Now consider that fact that low-limit players are a LOT more likely to "call one time" on the flop than they are to call on the turn. A LOT more likely. That's a lot of money to give up.

When you flop a straight, there are coordinated cards out there and the chances someone has part of it ..err.. think they have part of it is pretty high. Vis-a-vis a flop of K88 when you have KK, in which case its likely nobody has anything at all.

Most of your slow-plays will be with very strong hands when the player on your right bets into you. Otherwise, try very hard to make as many players face as many single bets as you can.

- Louie

[bernie]

no, you wont lose much by calling down. thats for sure. but its not necesarily a horrible board id be looking for. someone would turn over their cards and show me a nut flush and im still going to call to the river.

basically im talking turn play. sorry i didnt specify that. the river i can lay a set down much easier than the turn. and it doesnt have to be that tight a player.

b