How bad is this? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Baked67

09-13-2005, 02:05 PM

10+1, I think this play was pretty terrible...what could I have done differently...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t840)
MP3 (t785)
CO (t625)
Hero (t675)
SB Villan (t810)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1795)
UTG+1 (t730)
MP1 (t790)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
6 folds, Hero raises to t150, SB Villan raises to t325, 1 fold, Hero calls t175.

Any comments are welcome...I'll post the rest of the hand if anyone is interested...

Peace~

EnderFFX

09-13-2005, 02:10 PM

Bad play, you are putting 25% of your stack on a semi-steal. I say if you are going to steal this, you are close enough to 10 BB to push it, calling isn't horrible, because you can dump to any sort of agression, i would be inclined to fold it, looking for a move soon.

Maybe that's weak-tight on my part though. I hate the 25-50 level.

Tea_Bagger

09-13-2005, 02:14 PM

I would fold to the raise. You're basically committing yourself after you call. He's either got you dominated (AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ) or in a race situation where you'll probably only get to see the flop. Either limp/fold or just push it. I hate just calling for 1/2 of your stack.

What wound up happening?

Baked67

09-13-2005, 02:23 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t840)
MP3 (t785)
CO (t625)
Hero (t675)
SB :#A500AF(Villan)/ (t810)
BB (t950)
UTG (t1795)
UTG+1 (t730)
MP1 (t790)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
6 folds, Hero raises to t150, SB :#A500AF(Villan)/ raises to t325, 1 fold, Hero calls t175.

Flop: (t700) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villan bets t300, Hero raises to t350 (All-In), Villan calls t50.

Turn: (t1400) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1400) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1400
Results in white below: 
Villan has Jh Ac (one pair, eights).
Hero has Qs Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: Hero wins t1400. 

Man I suck...I dont really know exactly what was going through my head. I figured I couldn't fold for just another 175 chips in a pot of 525, that just seemed too weak to me. Is pushing over the top pre flop even an option here? I really have no idea how to play this...I dont really like the idea of pushing Pre flop with 13 BB's. Any other input...?

ZeroPointMachine

09-13-2005, 02:27 PM

SB's half stack re-raise is terrible unless he has a monster. Unless you have a read that he has no idea what he is doing you have to let it go while you still have a workable stack.

09-13-2005, 02:29 PM

If it makes you feel any better...I think the SB played the hand worse than you did.

Tea_Bagger

09-13-2005, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Man I suck...I dont really know exactly what was going through my head. I figured I couldn't fold for just another 175 chips in a pot of 525, that just seemed too weak to me. Is pushing over the top pre flop even an option here? I really have no idea how to play this...I dont really like the idea of pushing Pre flop with 13 BB's. Any other input...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both of you botched this hand pretty good. I don't get why he didn't just push if he was going to raise that much. Whatever...

Even though you're getting 3-1 on your call, I still don't like it as it risks so much of your stack. You gotta consider that it's still pretty early on and you don't want to risk your tourney life on a possible pair on the flop that might not even be good. For instance, what do you do if a K/Q comes PLUS an A. It leaves you in a wierd spot. That's why I like the limp/fold line. Just my thoughts.

Baked67

09-13-2005, 02:38 PM

Thanks, I see your point. So do you not advocate blind stealing in level 3 then?

ZeroPointMachine

09-13-2005, 02:57 PM

Limping here is terrible IMO. You have to take a shot at the blinds. The only question is do you push or make a normal raise. If you push you don't have to make any more decisions and will get a few more folds. But you've risked your whole stack to pickup 75 chips. You've increased your stack from 675 to 750 an increase of roughly 11%. I think a push here is okay but I would make a normal 3BB raise and play from there. As a general guideline I push in these situations if the blinds are >15% of my stack.

Sciolist

09-13-2005, 03:01 PM

I think a raise here is fine. It's not stealing the blinds, you have a genuinely big chance of having the best hand right now. What if you limp and the flop is Q27 and he reraises you? I'm raising this 99% of the time.

And to the OP, I'm folding to that reraise, you have a 1/3 chance of continuing with the hand after the flop, and you're going to be in pretty bad shape when you have to pass 2/3 of the time.... Then the 1/3 times, you could easily be behind anyway.

Tea_Bagger

09-13-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, I see your point. So do you not advocate blind stealing in level 3 then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow...after all that I hadn't even noticed you were the button. (I've been reading a few threads and got your position mixed up with someone else's...totally my bad.) With that in mind, I think your raise was fine. I still don't like the flat call though. Even though he only had AJo here I think too often you'll see a monster (AA, KK, QQ AKs) when someone re-raises like that as opposed to pushing. Then again, people do wierd s**t just as often, so I think its also read dependent (i.e. you've succeeded/failed to steal his blind before).

durron597

09-13-2005, 03:15 PM

I think the initial raise preflop is fine. The problem is that the SB is putting you in a situation where you have to commit your entire stack without him commiting his entire stack. It would be very tough to fold on any non A flop getting 3:1. I think I am pushing preflop here...

schwza

09-13-2005, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the initial raise preflop is fine. The problem is that the SB is putting you in a situation where you have to commit your entire stack without him commiting his entire stack. It would be very tough to fold on any non A flop getting 3:1. I think I am pushing preflop here...

[/ QUOTE ]

if villain pushed over your initial raise, would you fold? i would. then your advice is to play stronger against a mini-raise than a push, which i think is bad b/c the mini-raise shows more strength than a push.

i would just fold to the mini-raise.