Most wonderfully played hand ever. 109

[Chaostracize]

This is by no means standard. Both villains are pretty solid multi-tablers.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Button (t1105)
SB (t1040)
BB (t955)
Hero (t1005)
UTG+1 (t945)
UTG+2 (t955)
MP1 (t975)
MP2 (t925)
MP3 (t1080)
CO (t1015)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls t30, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t135) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t100</font>, MP2 calls t100, BB folds, Hero calls t100.

Turn: (t435) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

River: (t435) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t325</font>, Hero calls t325, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t1085

Seems to me like you are giving too many shots for someone to make a flush/straight. Why not raise Preflop or flop, let alone the turn? You probably think a lot deeper than I, since you are playing $109's..

[durron597]

Bet the flop, bet the turn. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I almost hope you lost to a flush.

[pokerdirty]

must raise pf early on in the tournament.

if you bet the flop, and 2 people call, why would you not bet the turn with the nuts?

you are just asking to get drawn out here. make them pay!

[zambonidrivr]

To me this just seems horrible. Calling the pre-flop is intersting, and I like it as making a set will likely cost someone their stack as its hard to put you on that hand. Not betting that flop is a mistake in my opinion as you have an overpair with 2 spades showing in a 3 way pot (2 way and i am not as worried). Same thing with turn... not raising here is dead wrong... as your giving someone a free card... perhaps you were looking to check raise here but it didn't work out. I prefer leading out there.

looks like you may have been rivered here, while pissing away most of your stack. gg

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
must raise pf early on in the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. And I will not debate this.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
This is by no means standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope not.

[pokerdirty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
must raise pf early on in the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. And I will not debate this.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
must raise pf early on in the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. And I will not debate this.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Chaostracize]

Because I usually play well postflop, and sometimes it's important to disguise your hand when playing agianst regulars. This table was also playing really tight. I'm not going broke automatically an an all under flop.

[pokerdirty]

what's your thinking on not betting the turn then?

[Chaostracize]

Flop: Pretty nice flop. I usually bet here. I want to keep the pot small and I'm not really scared of any cards yet. I kind of want to see what oppoisiton is going to do. If it checks to second villain I CR. I also want to see another tame turn card before I put too many chips in. Once V1 bets and V2 calls, I'm narrowing V2 to a draw and V1 to maybe just a continuation bet or a set. Don't know yet. So I call to make sure turn is a dud. I would love to push anyone off a draw, but it's too easy to run into a big hand here. Which is why I limped in the first place. (Note since I didn't raise preflop I don't want to bet out and get raised cause I'll have no clue where I am. Yes, I know this is solved by raising preflop. But I didn't.)

Turn: Best turn I could hit. Checking here is probably an enormous mistake. But my reasoning for checking was that V1 would recognize that either me or V2 was drawing and would bet at this pot to price us out. V2 may or may not come along for the ride and this is where I would CR. Obviously if V1 has nothing to protect I'm screwed.

River: I hate this card obviously. But once it's checked through the turn and river V2 could have a wide range of hands.

[KramerTM]

Who played this hand wonderfully? Certainly not you. I guess the guy who got to draw to a flush for free played it pretty well though.

[chisness]

llllllllllll

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
You probably think a lot deeper than I, since you are playing $109's..

[/ QUOTE ]

Naive assumption.

[jadducci]

This could have just as easily been a bad beat post.

[ezmogee]

Frankly, I think this hand was played very poorly. I have no problem limping with QQ. I do like to raise however, because normally there are enough people willing to pay 3x or 4x pf.

That said, you need to raise flop. You need to bet turn. So many hands pay you off on turn that it's almost a crime not to get their money. River is fine, but the turn is what irks me. You need to bet turn. Draws call you, etc. If you can get more money in on the turn, you can have them committed to allin on the riv.

[Chaostracize]

Well. It's not.

[pokerdirty]

this is where you post the ending.

[Chaostracize]

I don't post results. They do not matter.

[Melchiades]

It's when I win these kind of hands with a flush I literally roll on the floor laughing at my opponents. Nothing wonderfull about this hand. Nothing too bad except the turn check which I think is horrible.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I usually play well postflop, and sometimes it's important to disguise your hand when playing agianst regulars. This table was also playing really tight. I'm not going broke automatically an an all under flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
And you're also not building a pot or doing much in the way of accumulating chips with the 3rd best hand in poker. Nice work. If playing well post-flop is giving free shots at beating you and keeping the pots small against opponents you most likely are crushing I can happily say i absolutely suck post flop.

[Nicholasp27]

most wonderfully played because you won a 1k pot with the 3rd best hand in poker while giving players infinite odds to beat you?

pf: raise...gotta get value for the good hands
flop: bet half pot...don't give flush draws a free card to beat you...
turn: bet again...still don't give flush draw a free card to beat you...since u bet the flop already, they aren't thinking u hit a set of qs on this turn...if u hadn't bet the flop, they put u on qx or qq if u suddenly bet this turn now

[Rduke55]

Either you A. Got beat by giving too many free cards to hands that shouldn't have been in the pot in the first place, or B. Didn't win nearly what you could have with your big hand.
And why won't you debate when someone brings up a point? Isn't that why these forums exist?

[Nicholasp27]

[ QUOTE ]

And why won't you debate when someone brings up a point? Isn't that why these forums exist?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he already knows everything...he sees that he played this wonderfully and since we can't see that, we aren't worthy of his time and energy

[Chaostracize]

What's wrong with soaking in information.

Also, I don't like talking about hands with people who get angry about the play. Note the tone in almost every single response I got. Why would I want to argue with these people? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Chaostracize]

That's not true at all. Work on your inference.

[45suited]

I understand that you don't want to be results oriented and all, but I think it's kind of silly when people refuse to post the results of the hands that they post.

Often, alot of people took the time to go through the OP and give their thoughts. It's not too much for them to find out (after sufficient time has passed) if their reads were correct.

To refuse to give the results after pokerdirty requested to see them seems a bit childish. If the post was a simple "push / fold" post, where there is an obviously correct answer, the results would NOT matter. The action is simple and there is almost always a correct answer.

In this case, there was more to the hand. People take the time to put villain on a hand. It is not entirely correct to say that results "don't matter" in this case. People learn by watching the actions of all players in the hand and then seeing what hand they were playing in the fashion that they did.

Not trying to pile on or flame you, but there is a difference between posting the results of pushing QQ and having the A5 that wrongly called hit his ace and a hand where there were decisions on all streets. In this case, showing results would have some purpose.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
That's not true at all. Work on your inference.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is this referring to?

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with soaking in information.

Also, I don't like talking about hands with people who get angry about the play. Note the tone in almost every single response I got. Why would I want to argue with these people? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when have a title like the one on this thread you have to expect some criticism.

[Chaostracize]

When you see a title like this, you can expect OP to be completely serious.

[Melchiades]

nothing to see here, move on

[Chaostracize]

Sometimes maximizing profit doesn't come from just the hand in question.

[Melchiades]

Then the hand becomes irrelevant to discuss though. Discuss the thoughts behind sacrificing max profit in this hand to make more later then.

[Chaostracize]

Next time I check the flop and turn and try to take away the pot on the river I have a better chance of succeeding if this hand goes to showdown and wins. And if it doesn't they lose all respect for me and I get action when I fastplay. These are regulars; they will be keeping notes.

Also, my title has no bearing on whether or not the hand disclosed inside is worth discussing or not. Take your 8 posts an go home. Yes. I'm bringing out the "You have few posts, so go to hell" card.

[Nick B.]

This whole thread is pretty hilarious.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
must raise pf early on in the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. And I will not debate this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can bet some pretty good players disagree with you. Including me. I understand the argument you're making, but I think it's a pretty ridiculous one with 30 bb's. You have to realize how controversial what you said is, and "refusing to debate it" just makes you look like an ass.

In your other post you say that you're not going broke automatically with QQ on an all under flop, but against most opponents on this board it is wrong not too. Yadda, yadda, there are exceptions, and I'm aware of that, but with 30 bb's you just don't have a big enough stack to maneuver your way out of this pot in most of the instances where you're beat.

You also say that you check the flop to keep the pot small, but plan on check raising the second villain if he doesn't bet. Huh?

You go on to say that you put villain 1 on a c-bet or set and villiain 2 on a draw. You then say you're not scared of any cards yet, but want to make sure you see a safe turn so that you can go ahead and put cash in. Think about your reads for a second and see if it makes sense to wait for a safe card to bomb the turn given your reads. The turn card doesn't matter much for V1 because he either has a set or not (according to you), and there is no point in giving V2 a chance to correctly see a turn when you can charge him for his draw. You also let A's and K's draw for free. I just think so much of this thinking is incredibly flawed. It seems like you decided what you did was right (other than when you say you missed a turn bet) and you're coming here to defend it. I'm not saying just because everyone says you're wrong that you should believe it, but you should at least consider it and re-examine your thought process.

As for my position on the hand, I raise pf, fold to a reraise from most people. I bet the flop with intentions of getting it all-in or c/r all-in depending on the opponent. If I got to your turn I would pot it. River is fine.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
When you see a title like this, you can expect OP to be completely serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, jesus i can't believe all of these people couldn't see the sarcasm in your title, given the way the hand played out.

the biggest problem with this hand is that you missed your turn checkraise. if you get that in, you probably take it down on the turn. you went with your gut that it would get bet, it didn't oh well.

[Nicholasp27]

[ QUOTE ]
As for my position on the hand, I raise pf, fold to a reraise from most people.

[/ QUOTE ]

so if this is true, wouldn't it be correct to reraise your raises with any 2? if u will only call with aa/kk, then it seems like i should reraise u any 2

Glad i'm not the only one thinking this play was mega -EV. Thanks for the reinforcement kramer.

[curtains]

The trick to winning at these sit and gos is usually to just play like a normal person early on. For instance check raising this flop when there is already 350 chips in it, and a decent chance you'll get called by a worse hand.

[Bataglin]

This line suits me fine. Turn is debatable.

[adanthar]

You can do a number of things with a big pair UTG. You can raise it, you can try for a limp/reraise, or you can just limp/call (note: don't do this against anyone whom you don't know well) in order to break him postflop.

So OK, you limped. I do that UTG once in a while, and it's not really a big deal. Problem: You missed your (re)raise and the flop is kinda mediocre, with two draws. On the bright side, TT-99, 77 and any number of suited connectors are coming along here, so your bet will...wait, no, you checked. Well, OK, there's two behind you and they're solid, so while I don't like this much odds are that one of them will bet so you can CR...wait, no, you just overcalled.
Are you trying to lose your chips on purpose?

So the turn bails you out and gives you the nuts, while putting another draw up. And you...go for a checkraise and whiff. The river is equally horrible, since rather than blocking bet you hand off another good chunk of your stack to Mr. "I probably have a flush, but wait, you have top set and I could also maybe play an 8 that way, so maybe you sort of have the pot odds, kinda?"

FPS is all over this hand on every street. I don't mind it on one street or even two, but on all four combined, this is really fishy.

[Chaostracize]

I like this advice the best. Thx, curtains.