starting hands

[nate_h]

Low-Limit baffles me. Plain and simple. People out there, people that I have a great deal of respect for, argue that they would rather sit with idiots because they have a positive expectation over the course of their lives in these types of games. However, they frustrate me to no end because it is basically impossible to use deductive reasoning against them.
I find myself playing my hand in relation to the absolute nuts which means I lose bets when I win and fold too frequently because I have no information about their hands.
I don't believe that the starting hands listed in HEFAP are applicable to low-limit. I feel like if you are in a game when 5 people see a four-bet flop and the winner is the old homeless guy in seat 3 who played 9-4 from early postion some adjustments to strategy need to be made.
My proposal is playing suited connectors and all pairs. Who cares about position, just try to maximize pot odds and hope that when you hit, you hit big. I have not found any other concepts to apply to 4-8 games and even this one is only working marginally well.
Thanks for the suggestions
Nate

[Bob T.]

Man, you sound like you think that starting with the right cards is going to get you the pot, and make this game easy. It isn't. A lot of poker gets played after the flop. You have to be able to evaluate when you have the odds to continue. When raises, and reraises have value. When your hand is hopeless, and have some idea about how your opponents play and what their plays mean. One thing about those guys that play every hand for any number of bets. They see about 4 or 5 times as many flops, as the tight guys, and for the same number of hours in the cardroom, have a lot more experience at postflop play. If you have a 10% edge on them preflop, and they have a 10% edge on you on every street after that, who do you think is going to come out on top?

I see a lot of players that play terribly preflop, but if you analyze their play after the flop, you won't find many mistakes. They turn over a lot of terrible looking hands, but at the same time, they are getting enough value on the later streets, that they can at least survive in the game. Their hourly variance might be pretty high also, but if they are playing for entertainment, that is part of the fun also.

It sounds like you are losing money after the flop, so I think that you need to concentrate on that part of the game. If you play online, maybe you could play in a lowlimit shorthanded game, where you need to see more flops, and you play a higher percentage of hands in the blinds. I think as your play improves, you will find out about the value that you have in having position, and why you want to play some of those hands in good position, and why some hands are relatively position independant. When you are playing in ring games, and are out of the hand, practice counting the pot, and try and anticipate the action on the next street. When you are in the hand, count your outs. When you see a showdown, replay the hand, and see how your opponents got there. Sometime, all of a sudden, you will be playing, and you will say, he played this like that, so he has..... and you will be right. And then you are really playing the game. Last week, I was sitting next to a friend, and he folded to a turn bet conceding the pot to his opponent. I said to him 'J9 of spades is no good.' He says 'You think you are so smart, you got it wrong', and pulled his hand out of the muck - J9 of diamonds' Oh well. I am going to get this sooner or later.

Play starters that can turn into good hands. Play your good hands fast. Watch how your opponents react, and process that information. You will be getting and saving value at the right times. If you do those things, you should be able to beat almost all of those loose 4-8 games out there, and you will also be equipped to move up into the tougher games.

[bernie]

that's why HPFAP has sections for loose and wild games. dont worry, lots of players dont read past page 150. at least not in depth, anyway. they only read the main part, then get frustrated when the other players dont play the way they want them too. then blame the opponents when it's their own game that is hindering them. on abdul's website, which i cant remember what it is but someone on here will, he has some ideas for this type of game also. combining both approaches, or at least understanding them, should help.

btw...many good players dont particularly care for loose cap happy games. theyre beatable, but there's better games that you dont need the costco size bottle of maalox to play. but there are players who really love the rollercoaster

not all LL games play this way. find a different game with a more calm texture.

b