Trying to make a living Online

[davidross]

I am going to conduct an experiment and anyone who is interested can follow along with me. I am off work for the next little while and I am going to see if I can make a living playing 5/10 at paradise. I work as a contract computer consultant and after 9 years of working every day for the 2nd time in 6 months I have no clients. It will be a few weeks at least before I start again so I thought it would be interesting to see if I can do this. In order to replace my reegular draw, I need to make $1,400 a week (US). So my goal will be 200 a day. Based on my earnings over the past 2 months I think it can be done if I put in the hours. I estimate I make about 30-40 an hour online. That is playing 2 tables at around 70 hands per hour. I think it equals 1 BB/hr live if you go by hands played.

I am curious to know if any of the pro's out there play online.

My plan is to play a few hours in the afternoon until my kids get home around 3:30. THen after they are in bed I will play from 9:00 PM until 3:00 AM. I have to get them to school in the mornings, but can go back to bed and catch up on the missed sleep then. Time will tell if this is realistic.

I find the games at paradise super-aggressive compared to what I have read about in these forums. Notes on individual players are crucial to success here. Some guys you can never fold to heads up. I try to avoid games with 2 or more 2+2'ers at the table. I don't mind playing with 1 but beyond that it seems the table gets too tight. I play looser and less aggressive than most of the posters here, and I like to play for the "long bomb". Lots of pocket pairs and suited connectors looking for the big score. To cover for playing these weakish hands I also like to limp first in with AA and KK. I know this has been noticed because comments have been made, and it really helps me see more flops unraised. Okay enough background here's what has happened so far;

Day 1 - Sunday.

Played 6 hours and had a very good night + $340.

Day 2 -

Played 4 hours in the afternoon. Paradise promotion is on and lots of people playing too many hands trying to earn points. + $150. Played 6 more hours at night and had one of those nights where I hardly played any hands. I got big pairs or lousy cards and won almost every time I saw the flop. flopped quads 3 times (Aces twice and Jacks) + $230. + 380 for the day and + 720 for the week.

Day 3 - the bubble bursts..then inflates.

Played 3 hours in the afternoon - $320. Believe it or not I played very well. It could have been much worse. Rivered again and again.

Played 6 hours in the evening the exact opposite of the morning. Deck hit me in the face. + $670 and ir probably should have been more. I think I missed a number of value bets early in the session. I was still gun shy after the afternoon. Stealing pots no one else wants is a big part of my game and I was to afraid to go for it tonight. Strange game.

+ 360 for the day and + 1080 for the week.

Day 4.

Took the afternoon off to help my wife in the yard. A luxury because of the headstart in the bankroll. 6 hours tonight + $70. Strange session. Up early then card dead for 3 hours.

Some hands I found interesting.

UTG I limped in with 7h 6h (I warned you I liked these). I got so much respect everyone folded to the SB (A big time bluffer) who called. BB checked.

*** FLOP *** : [ Kh 6s Qs ]

checked to me I bet my bottom pair and the SB raised. BB folds and I call.

*** TURN *** : [ Kh 6s Qs ] [ Ac ]

SB bets and I raise. He calls. I will try this once or twice a night. Always against one of the guys who is a known bluffer. Even if he does have a K, the A has to scare him, and he doesn't necessarily have anything.

*** RIVER *** : [ Kh 6s Qs Ac ] [ 4s ]

Check, I bet he folds.


I think the biggest weakness in my game is paying off river bets. here was an example;

I have Ad Qc in EP and I open raise. Cold call on my left, then folded around.

*** FLOP *** : [ 8h Ah 6h ]

I bet he calls.

*** TURN *** : [ 8h Ah 6h ] [ Tc ]

Bet and call again.

*** RIVER *** : [ 8h Ah 6h Tc ] [ 2h ]

That can't be good. I check he bets and I pay him off. He had Ks Qh. I like having him in my game, but probably could have saved a bet. Anyone else think you have to call?


Any comments greatly appreciated. I'll update at the end of the week.


btw.. I will be going back to work no matter what. I don't want this life, I just want to see if its feasible. It would seem to me to be more possible online than live because of the extra hands and the lower rake. Time will tell.

[k0ruptr]

seems as if you're definetly makin it feasible so far, wish you all the luck in world... peace

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Just think of this experiment as retirement planning.

[SoBeDude]

Hey David,

outstanding job so far. definitely keep up the good work.
most impressive outcome so far.

btw.. I will be going back to work no matter what. I don't want this life, I just want to see if its feasible. It would seem to me to be more possible online than live because of the extra hands and the lower rake. Time will tell.

Possible online? yes. better than live? I'm not so sure. You said it yourself the games are tough. I think the live games are much looser. but that is offset by lower rake and no tokes, so I'm not sure which is better.

But I think that if I could comfortably make 1000+ a week playing online I'd do it for a while.

-Scott

[rigoletto]

Good work David

So this is why I've been seeing you so much in my evening game (European time). I often find the Paradise 5/10 to be very tight at those hours, but the promotions do their bit to attract the fish /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Good Luck and keep us posted

[eMarkM]

Good luck with this. In your downtime as a contractor, I think this isn't a bad idea. As an experiement, anyways, as you said. Especially if you have a decent nest egg to fall back on as most between-jobs contractors should. You play enough anyway, its not like it's a stretch for you to do this. Obvioulsly, you need to spend a lot of time hustling up your next "real" job.

In my PokerStat DB (you have PokerStat, right...right?), you would probably not be surprised to learn that you are my #1 foe. I have more hands collected on you (+4K) than anyone else I've faced. I have you just above breakeven in those hands. Granted, some of these go over a year back and your play has improved since then. But even since January, where you and I have played together more frequently, you're still breakeven. And I've seen you have some monster sessions in those times, I was a little surprised by that. So I think, at worst, you'll be killing some time while you wait for the next gig and won't dump your nest egg to PP.

You already know my running critique of your play is you play too loosely up front (29% flop). Even in 5/10 only games you're still at 28%, so you haven't tightened up that much in the move up. This may work in a passive 2/4, but I think in the long run those UTG limps with suited connectors and 33 are going to hurt your results at the tougher 5/10. Yeah, you hit that homerun sometimes, but I think you'll bleed a lot of chips in the meantime and the overall drag that is to your overall EV. You limp UTG, get raised (and 63% of 5/10 games get raised preflop), you call, it's HU and you check-fold on flop. When you do hit and do the big flop c/r, your smarter opponents (and, ok, most of them aren't, but they're better at 5/10) know you hit your set and won't pay you off.

In looking at my own stats, I am barely +EV limping in EP with 22-55. Usually, I limp only after someone else limps and I know from playing with you I play these tighter than you do, so I don't think yours would be any better. You've won about $300 in EP with 22-66 and this is only the hands you show down. Doesn't show all the ones you mucked on the flop (ok, or the ones where the other guy folded). On the whole, it's pretty marginal.

With suited connectors below 9, in EP, I'm most definately negative EV. Most of these hands go back awhile in my looser days, as I rarely come into a pot with hands like this now in EP. Muck 76s UTG for crying out loud, it's a money loser.

And, David, what's with all the cold calling of raises. I've noticed you doing this quite a lot recently, being the first to call a raise. And then check-fold on the flop frequently thereafter. You need to stop that. Re-raise and take control, or muck. I rarely see that work out for you.

[SoBeDude]

wonderful feedback mark.

I wish you had such feedback for me as well!

-Scott

[eMarkM]

I only have 192 hands with you, probably just one or two session. Not much to go on, but you saw 24% of flops and won 11BB. I only have 16 hands where you show down. AA,AA,KK,JJ,AT,ATs,KJ,KJ,76s,A9,A9s,A8s, and such. All playable hands in the given situations. You won most of the hands you showed down.

Then there's the one where you called my LP 3 bet (I had cowboys) from the BB with 22, which was way loose (ok, you flopped a set, but we both lost to a rivered str8).

[SoBeDude]

Then there's the one where you called my LP 3 bet (I had cowboys) from the BB with 22, which was way loose (ok, you flopped a set, but we both lost to a rivered str8).

I did WHAT!?? I can't imagine doing that, but I might if there were a whole LOT of callers...

-Scott

[eMarkM]

Well, ok, six callers of 3 bets.

Game #276,031,678 - $2.00/$4.00 Hold'em - 2003/02/22-14:22:41 (CST)
Table "Cocos Islands" (real money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Seat 1: SoBeDude ($100.00 in chips) (bb)
Seat 2: veetee ($19.00 in chips)
Seat 3: hop22 ($150.00 in chips)
Seat 4: NoOuts ($124.00 in chips)
Seat 5: sskwick ($193.00 in chips)
Seat 6: RainZu ($85.00 in chips)
Seat 7: eMarkM ($80.00 in chips)
Seat 8: petok ($92.00 in chips)
Seat 9: loosechange ($209.00 in chips) (button)
Seat 10: jm,yos ($115.00 in chips) (sb)
jm,yos : Post Small Blind ($1.00)
SoBeDude : Post Big Blind ($2.00)
Dealt to eMarkM [ Kc ]
Dealt to eMarkM [ Ks ]
veetee : Fold
hop22 : Call ($2.00)
NoOuts : Call ($2.00)
sskwick : Raise ($4.00)
RainZu : Call ($4.00)
eMarkM : Raise ($6.00)
petok : Fold
loosechange : Fold (button)
jm,yos : Fold (sb)
SoBeDude : Call ($4.00) (bb)
hop22 : Call ($4.00)
NoOuts : Call ($4.00)
sskwick : Raise ($4.00)
RainZu : Call ($4.00)
eMarkM : Call ($2.00)
SoBeDude : Call ($2.00) (bb)
hop22 : Call ($2.00)
NoOuts : Call ($2.00)
*** FLOP *** : [ 8h Ts 2c ]
SoBeDude : Check (bb)
hop22 : Check
NoOuts : Bet ($2.00)
sskwick : Call ($2.00)
RainZu : Call ($2.00)
eMarkM : Raise ($4.00)
SoBeDude : Call ($4.00) (bb)
hop22 : Call ($4.00)
NoOuts : Call ($2.00)
sskwick : Call ($2.00)
RainZu : Call ($2.00)
*** TURN *** : [ 8h Ts 2c ] [ 9s ]
SoBeDude : Check (bb)
hop22 : Check
NoOuts : Bet ($4.00)
sskwick : Call ($4.00)
RainZu : Call ($4.00)
eMarkM : Call ($4.00)
SoBeDude : Raise ($8.00) (bb)
hop22 : Call ($8.00)
NoOuts : Call ($4.00)
sskwick : Call ($4.00)
RainZu : Call ($4.00)
eMarkM : Call ($4.00)
*** RIVER *** : [ 8h Ts 2c 9s ] [ 6d ]
SoBeDude : Check (bb)
hop22 : Check
NoOuts : Check
sskwick : Bet ($4.00)
RainZu : Fold
eMarkM : Call ($4.00)
SoBeDude : Call ($4.00) (bb)
hop22 : Fold
NoOuts : Call ($4.00)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $134.00 | Rake: $3.00
Board: [ 8h Ts 2c 9s 6d ]
SoBeDude lost $24.00 [ 2d 2h ] (three of a kind)
veetee didn't bet (folded)
hop22 lost $20.00 (folded)
NoOuts lost $24.00 [ Tc 9h ] (two pair)
sskwick bet $24.00, collected $134.00, net +$110.00 [ 7s 7h ] (straight)
RainZu lost $20.00 (folded)
eMarkM lost $24.00 [ Kc Ks ] (pair)
petok didn't bet (folded)
loosechange didn't bet (folded)
jm,yos lost $1.00 (folded)

[Roy Munson]

David, I too have played with you extensively from $2-4 to an occasional foray into $8-16. I must echo eMarkM's comments. My notes show that you cold call raises and that you have loose calling and sometimes raising standards from early position.

You won't recognize my 2+2 posting name but I can assure you that we chat on a regular basis during our games.
I have played at Paradise for 3 years and feel very comfortable in the Hold Em games up to $8/16 and the O/8 games to $10/20.

Recently I have tried a couple of the other sites and have settled on UB as my secondary site. Although I have only played at UB for 4 weeks so far the games seem significantly softer than the Paradise games.

I still like playing at Paradise because of the software and an extensive collection of player notes but if you want to play semi-professionally, game selection becomes more important. I would suggest that if you have not already tried other sites to consider exploring them.

Good luck and let me remind you of what I once said to you recently after you complained about a flop hitting your preflop folded hand hard. "Don't be so results oriented".

[SoBeDude]

and I was in the blind...

[rkiray]

I agree that if you want to go semi-pro UB is better than PP. I've been playing at UB for about a month (still play at PP, but my main site now is UB). The games are definetly softer at UB. Plus they reward frequent players bonus program that PP doesn't. You can get free entries into tournies or other prizes like poker books or software if you prefer. It's not great, but PP doesn't offer frequent players anything. They also have high hand bonuses. It's not that likely that you will get them, but they can't hurt and once again PP doesn't offer anything. I won a $459 high hand bonus last week. Obviously if you are playing more than other people you have a better chance of winning.

PP does have a few advantages. More games to choise between. They have the better software and servers IMHO than any other internet site. I think UB offering kill and half-kill games hurt them. Sure it's nice to have a choice (I actually don't care one way or the other), but games break up or go short handed much more often at UB than PP. I think it's because some people really want a kill or 1/2 kill game and won't play in the game they don't prefer. Also my pokerstat database doesn't work with UB.

[Tekari]

It works on paradise as well as partypoker, pokerstars, and empirepoker.

Just curious i have not used either just seems 4 sites is beneficial

[MickeyMcD]

dude, you omust really know what your doin. Making all that dough off suckers like me. Where's paradise at anyways?

Mickey

[SoBeDude]

You got me thinking about this hand so I went back an re-evaluated it.

There are 11.5 SBs in the pot when it comes back to me for 2 bets, giving me immediate odds of 5.25 to 1 on my call Plus I can comfortably count on at least two of the other callers to call again, giving me 15.5 SBs and immediate odds of 7.75 to 1 on my call (enough for drawing to a set).

It ends with $49 in the pot or 24.5 SBs. I called 2 bets and another bet, giving me over 8 to 1 to see the flop.

Did I make a mistake?

-Scott

[Bob T.]

Also my pokerstat database doesn't work with UB.

On the other hand, I really like the UB hand history feature, where you can check the hand without going through email, and you still have it fresh in your mind.

[Bob T.]

Did I make a mistake?


You want to make about 12 times your preflop investment if you need to flop a set to win. You got there, so you probably didn't make a mistake.

[rkiray]

I haven't used pokertracker. When I bought pokerstat, I had not heard of pokertracker. It is cheaper and it works on more sites so it is probably a better deal. I'm playing enough at UB now that I might buy it.

[Tekari]

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[SoBeDude]

You want to make about 12 times your preflop investment if you need to flop a set to win.

But you're only 7.5 to 1 to flop a set...

-Scott

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You need to allow for the times you flop a set and lose

[SoBeDude]

ok so maybe 8 or 8.5 to one. sets don't lose all that often. they sure don't lose 40% of the time to justify needing 40% more odds upfront. And don't forget about implied odds.

-Scott

[MickeyMcD]

thanks man
I thought he meant the game was paradise as in full of guppies

Mickey

[Huh]

When sets do lose, it often costs you a bunch of money. Much more than your initaial bring in.

[anatta]

Go baby go!

A lot of guys, including myself, play poker as a secondary source of income. I can't think of a better second job. I know I could make more money doing other things, but most of the time I am having fun, so why not play?

[Bob T.]

Exactly!

[davidross]

Day 5.

Now here is something you never have to deal with in the casino. I start my afternoon session and as usual the afternoon games are quite tight. I’m playing good solid poker and I’m ahead around $80. Now my wife, who is home this week comes to visit me with a grin on her face and asks if I would like to join her in some afternoon delight. Poker or sex. Hmmm. So of course I played around to my blinds and took a break. Modesty prevents me from giving too many details but lets just say I didn’t get back in time to keep my seat. Now of course when I get back and finally get seated again I quickly drop $450 and start blaming my wife for the bad mojo. Maybe there’s some truth to that lucky at love unlucky at cards thing.

Horrible afternoon session again. Rivered more times than I can believe. Still paying off too much I guess. -$370.

The afternoon games are very different than the evening games I’m used to. Much fewer games to choose from and considerably tighter. I’m going to have to make adjustments if I hope to make any money here. Played with 2+2’er Rigoletto all seek in this game. He’s much tighter than me, and very aggressive when he does play a hand. I just tried to stay out of his way, and for the most part succeeded.

Evening

Treaded water for 7 hours to end - $57 for the evening and -427 for the day. For the week I’m now + $723 for the week and a fair bit behind my target.


Day 6

Afternoon.

Well I waded into the tough afternoon games again after two really bad sessions. No tempting offers from my wife and the deck just smacked me in the face. I just raised and raised and watched flop after flop hit me. 2 ½ hours. + $542

For statistic freaks I played 342 hands 14% won 45% won when flop seen.

Evening.

This may have been the best I played all week. I played over 700 hands and won 6% of them, and I only lost $100. I started at two tables with the same player who was just running over both tables. eMark was with me at one of the tables and he later described the guy as a maniac, but my notes on him(which came from a previous session described him as a dangerous aggressive player. He NEVER calls. Raise or fold and he plays a lot of strange hands. You never know where he is. Another guy I would like to stay out of the way of, unfortunately tonight you couldn’t, he was in every hand, and they were all raised or 3 bet pre-flop. In hindsight I should have changed tables sooner. The nice thing about paradise 5/10 is that there are always 6 or 7 going, some game selection is usually good. I noticed later on that this player (Tobie is his nickname) was the points leader by a mile in the paradise promotion. I saw him win over a $700 while I was there, most of it mine. I dropped $500 in 1 ½ hours playing 19% of my hands and winning 4%. I finally moved to two different tables and although I didn’t win many more hands they were big ones.

I got presto (5,5) in the BB and had 2 limpers and a LP raise in front of me. The SB called as did I and the 2 limpers.

Flop was 5,4,3 rainbow. I decided to play it fast and bet out. All 5 players called me.

Turn was an 8, second diamond on the board. I bet out again and got 3 calls.

River a second 3. I bet out again, got 1 call then a raise. I 3 bet, lost the limper and got called. He had A,3. You don’t have to win too many of these to make a big difference.

Something that both eMark and Roy pointed out in their replies to me was that I cold called too often. Here is one of the situations where I do cold-call.

2nd to act open raises. I don’t regard his play too highly. I have Kd Td and I call. I like to call with suited broadway cards. I don’t want to play him heads up so I’m hoping to set off a calling frenzy and flop something big. I do release these hands a lot on the flop, but you do have position on the raiser. We got 1 more caller plus the BB.

*** FLOP *** : [ 9d 2d Qh ]

The pre-flop raiser bet and I just called. Heads up I would raise this but I am hoping for some calls behind me. I get 1 call from the BB and I now have the button.

*** TURN *** : [ 9d 2d Qh ] [ 6s ]

Checked to me this time and I bet. Both folded and My K high won a nice pot.

Does everyone think this is a bad play?

SO for the day I am + $446 and for the week I am + $1,167, just slightly behind target.

Day 7. Saturday, no afternoon session. I won’t play when the kids are around. 1 it’s too distracting, and 2 I can’t get near the computer when they’re here. So I dug up my front lawn in preparation of laying new sod tomorrow.

Had another good night (I love this paradise promotion. People playing too loose trying to win as many pots as they can. I’m curious to see what the games will be like next week)

Interesting hand,

I went to tuck my daughter in to bed and when I came back the button had just passed. I posted 2 off the button and there was another poster in the cutoff. $17 in the pot already. It was folded to me. I had 92 off suit and checked. Poster checked, button folded and now the sb raised. BB folded and I was all set to fold myself when I paused. I am getting 27 to 5 on a call and maybe more. Is any hand that big a dog? I decided no and called. Who else makes this call?

Anyway the other poster called too and the flop contained 2 9’s and a 3. SB bet I called and the other poster folded. Turn was a 7, 2nd heart. He bet and I called. River was a Q, no flush. He bet, I raised and he folded.

Last hand of the week.

I am in the BB with Jh 9h. There is a limp, a raise and a cold call in front of me. I call and so did the limper.

*** FLOP *** : [ 7h 7d 2h ]

checked to the pre-flop raiser who bets. Cold caller raises. I’m pretty sure neither of them has a 7, so I 3 bet to represent the 7. Limper folds but both the other 2 call.

*** TURN *** : [ 7h 7d 2h ] [ 6h ]

Yee haw. I bet again, both call. Now please, no more hearts.

*** RIVER *** : [ 7h 7d 2h 6h ] [ 6c ]

Yee haw again. I bet and both called again.

Preflop raiser had AA, but no heart. Cold caller and flop raiser had AK with the A hearts.

Abstaining from sex pays off again.

For the day 2 ½ hours played. + $307. for the week + $1,474. Yippee. I made more in my first week than I took home in my last week on the job. No taxes on gambling in Canada either. Something tells me this isn’t maintainable, but I’ll try again next week. If anyones interested I’ll post again then.

[AceHigh]

I think it's interesting, and would like to hear how it plays out. Hopefully you can keep it up until you get back to work.

I don't know how many hours you played, but your win rate seems pretty high, might be hard to sustain it.

Good luck.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

No taxes on gambling even if it's your sole source of income?

[lorinda]

No taxes on gambling in England either.

I've told the story before, where I was taken to court for an outstanding student loan (That I was below the threshold to be paying, but they found me guilty of non-payment in my absence anyway...my absence due to them not telling me I was in court).

Upon hearing I was a pro gambler, they asked me to pay a modest sum each month.

My defense, Ill do that on winning months, if you pay me on losing months.

Case Dismissed.

The tax laws work the same way.

Lori

[AceHigh]

"2nd to act open raises. I don’t regard his play too highly. I have Kd Td and I call."

Against most players, it's probably a mistake. But this player is a poor player, as you point out, and it looks like you can make money doing it against him.

[rigoletto]

Good to hear that you're doing well /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Seems like I should probably move to another timezone to get into the juicy 5/10 games.

I had a roller coaster ride at PP 5/10 yesterday: dropped $500, proceeded to win $1000 and then dropped $400 at the 10/20 table (playing stupid agressive). The downswings came mostly from getting rivered by gutshots and the like, but the same loose players ended up paying me back. Guess I've just have to live with the swings because of the style I'm playing.

Be carefull with those cold calls, and good luck (except against me) /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

If only the IRS were so considerate /forums/images/icons/mad.gif

We in the US may pay less taxes than the rest of the industrialized world, but screw up and it's the Spanish Inquisition.

[AceHigh]

"Seems like I should probably move to another timezone to get into the juicy 5/10 games."

Don't know what times you play at, but it seems like the 6pm-10pm EDT/USA is one of the worst.

I think davidross is on the west coast of Canada, so he should be taking advantage of the bad players coming on in the 10pm and later time frames.

[davidross]

I played about 50 hours I think. SO it worked out to around $30/hr. I'm a little sceptical too, although it's the equivalent of 1 1/2 BB's pre table and I'm seeing twice as many hands as live, so it's only the equivalent of 3/4 BB per hour live. That seems feasible to me.

I am afraid the games may get tougher now that the WSOP promotion is over.

[davidross]

There certainly are high's and lows aren't there. I hav efouns the games much better as the night goes on. I think some people are drinking, and the natural instinct is to loosen up as a session goes on, either to get back to even or push your luck. I don't start playing usually until my kids are in bed so it's 9:00 EST when I start and I have found the midnight to 3:00 AM (Prime time on the west coast) very juicy. I don't envy you that European prime time, those gmaes (afternoon for me) I have found considerably tighter. I'm going to have to use an afternoon strategy and an evening strategy.

See you this weeek I'm sure.

[Punker]

The casinos in Canada are all gov't run, so they've already taken their cut. So the answer is yes, even if it's your sole source of income (thank god they haven't gotten around to making laws on internet gambling yet).

[rigoletto]

Hi David

Some hints for your afternoon game: You need to play agressive. In these tight games a good deal of your money comes from stealing pots, so raise in late position. But be carefull; in these games it's also important to know who you're playing with. My biggest leak is probably that I try to steal from the wrong people , the bad players who'll go to the river with anything.

Sometimes you have a mixed games with all the rocks and then a couple of loose bad players. In this situation it can be good to make raises in early position: the rocks will fold and the bad players will call with their crappy hands.

Also: Know who is prone to stealing pots, with the right amount of agression you can often resteal pots.

I've now talked a lot about stealing, but the bottom line is stil to play solid poker and then steal when the occassion presents itself.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Hey, David, are you going to play in the King of the Zoo Tournament on PokerStars this Thursday?

[Fmonti]

David: You mention your afternoon sessions bieng alot tighter than the evening..Have you tried another site? I've started playing @ Partypoker the last couple of weeks in the afternoon and although there are not many tables they seem to be quite good..Really enjoy your reports.Keep up the good work and continued good results /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

[eMarkM]

eMark was with me at one of the tables and he later described the guy as a maniac, but my notes on him(which came from a previous session described him as a dangerous aggressive player.

He was difficult to play against, but he was a maniac. Saw over 50% of the flops. It was a joy to be in his game. Stealing w/ 82o, capping with 55, all kinds of crap. He'd aggressively play the 55, the flop would come AKK and he'd pay off all the way. But he was also getting some big cards (and some bigger rivers) and you basically had to pay him off when he hit one since he could have anything. That's not the game to leave, that's the one you should be happy to stay in. Not as good as playing against a bunch of passive calling stations, but those are the kind of games to seek out at PP 5/10.

2nd to act open raises. I don’t regard his play too highly. I have Kd Td and I call. I like to call with suited broadway cards. I don’t want to play him heads up so I’m hoping to set off a calling frenzy and flop something big. I do release these hands a lot on the flop, but you do have position on the raiser. We got 1 more caller plus the BB.

That's just plain ugly. Cold calling with a dominated hand like that. Easy fold to me, you just have all kinds of problems when a K flops and others have cold called behind you. Plenty of folks cold call with AK, even KQ. Maybe from LP when others have already cold called, but that's it.

If he's a loose fish and you don't regard his play, you should 3 bet. Why wouldn't you want it HU? You 3 bet, he checks to you on the flop, and you often can take it down with a bet right there. Instead, you let all kinds of hands come in that could dominate you. You don't really want to encourage a bunch of callers because then you're looking at flopping diamonds or str8 draw, a K will probably be no good for you. Post flop is fine, you bet your draw on the turn and took it down.

I am in the BB with Jh 9h.

I don't mind this kind of semi-bluff aggression, but only against players who you think capable of laying down a hand when you bet the turn. And that's not going to happen with a preflop raiser betting and getting raised by another. Again, you show us a hand where the result is you getting the perfect card on the turn, thus justifying the play. What would you have done if a blank hit? Continue the ruse and bet out again trying to pick it up against players who've showed strength? And again on the river?

[SoBeDude]

It seems to me that party rarely has a 5-10 game going, nevermind a selection of them.

Now usually when there IS one, it is a nice juicy game.

-Scott

[Jeffage]

There are some 6max 5-10 games running in the evening and they are usually very good. As I speak there are 2 short games and 2 full games.

Jeff

[davidross]

I plan to.

cya there

[dogsballs]

lori,

Just curious. How do you make your living as a gambler. I'm assuming poker almost solely. Live/online? Tourneys? What's your typical routine and/or stakes/hours played?

Don't mind if I'm nosy do you..? /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

Just curious about your fine self and others who make their living playing (I have no intent to do the same - poker works fine for paying for holidays and treats for me).

dogs

btw, I lived in Cov for a year - '96-97. I forget the street name or the area, but up near the football ground where lots of prostitutes would hang out (none looked liked your picture there, so I'll assume you're a good girl... /forums/images/icons/grin.gif ).
Lived in a crumbly 5 bedroom house on my own - rented by the room - buying leccy cards from the local shop for 5 quid when the lights went out, tumbleweed blowing down the corridors etc. I could tell the score every 2nd Sat just from the crowd noise - literally yards from the ground.

[LondonBroil]

eMarkM, in this hand, why did you call the river bet? I know the pot was huge and you only have to win this maybe 3~4% of the time, but unless these people are crazy, I would expect to lose this 99.5% of the time.

Sobe raises the turn, and then sskwick comes out betting on the river? I'd have been sure I was beaten.

[eMarkM]

LOL, just what I said to myself when I looked this over again. What was I thinking?

One of my leaks: Not being able to release big pocket pairs, with this being a painful example.

[LondonBroil]

I would love to sit down with you for awhile and let you collect info on me but I think 5-10 is a little higher for my $550 BR. Maybe in a few months after I build it to $2000 or so.

What program do you use to gather this info?

[eMarkM]

[lorinda]

That would be hillfields /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Right next to the old Annabelles casino.

I play very low stakes, and very many hours.

I played about 10 years pro on the rebuy tourney circuit, but now play exclusively online unless my friends drag me into a casino kicking and screaming.

I'd say my breakdown is something like 80% sit n go, 10% tourney 10% ring online.

Ive played tourneys from Freerolls to $1000 online, but $11-33 sit and goes are the norm.

Being English, I avoid limit holdem like the plague, this is doubly true as I have a small bankroll and the fluctuations are painful in that game.


I make a living, but not a killing, the two are often easily confused.

The great thing is, that every $1 earned is like earning $1.25 in a real job because of the tax situation here, so a huge income is not required.

Lori

[SoBeDude]

Being English, I avoid limit holdem like the plague, this is doubly true as I have a small bankroll and the fluctuations are painful in that game.

It suprises me to hear you feel fluctuations are higher in a ring game than in a tourney. Since only the top few spots pay in a tourney and the rest lose 100% of their buy-in, it would seem tournies would have the higher varience.

But I don't know much about tournies.

-Scott

[lorinda]

In single table tourneys, I use a 20 tourney roll (Approx).

My strike rate (in the money) is creeping towards 55% nowadays so it really is the height of grind.

I play few multi tables for this reason, however the ROI on a multi table tourney is worth it, so I tend to play them on particuarly good days (I tend to "work" until I am happy with my result, and then take a view on the rest of the day).

Also, I believe that a mix of games is good for staying fresh.
Sometimes the less +EV (or very occasionally -EV if I try something that I really suck at) is worth taking so that I can concentrate better on the games I should be playing.

I believe doing the same thing ALL of the time leads to complacency, and my results certainly show that when I have tried to just stick to one thing the EV goes down instead of up.

I am close to a roll of 100 tourneys, which is what I believe I need to play multi-table tournaments on a more regular basis.

Lori

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Variance is higher at limit because you usually have odds to chase your draws to the river. On days you miss most of your draws, you lose big. On days you hit most of your draws, you win big. At NL, if your opponents play right, you're not getting adequate odds, so you muck a lot of your 4 flushes and 4 straights on the flop.

[nicky g]

Hi Lorinda,

I was wondering where you think the best low-limit 1-table tournaments (player-wise, structure-wise, rake-wise) are to be found? Obviously you may not want to answer, no offence taken if that's the case. Also what times are good to play over here? Are the daytime games tougher than the evening ones?
Best,
NG.