AK in a monster

[newhizzle]

MP1 is somewhat loose aggressive, MP3 is tight aggressive, Button is about in between, BB is super loose aggressive

i seriously dont know how to play this

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (21.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB is all-in ($7.50)</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero folds, and of course my A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif comes on the river

[GMan42]

Call me weak-tight, but I'd fold preflop. Maybe if you thought MP3 was 3-betting light as an isolation attempt it's OK.

Calling the turn would be pretty thin--depends on how much you want to discount your outs. If you want to be generous and give yourself 2 outs each for the aces/kings, and 3 outs for the 4's, it's OK, but you may get stuck putting in up to 2 more bets just to see the river. Personally I wouldn't have stuck around either.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling the turn would be pretty thin--depends on how much you want to discount your outs. If you want to be generous and give yourself 2 outs each for the aces/kings, and 3 outs for the 4's, it's OK, but you may get stuck putting in up to 2 more bets just to see the river. Personally I wouldn't have stuck around either.

[/ QUOTE ]

you also have to consider the fact that the button is still acting behind you after BB went all in

[Nick C]

Your outs are kind of murky on the turn, but you do potentially have 10 of them. I wouldn't discount those potential outs enough to fold in this large pot.

BB's turn checkraise isn't easy to interpret. (Is he trying to protect his weak made hand? Is he now abandoning his slowplay and springing a trap with a turn checkraise? Is he just anxious to push in the rest of his chips?) And I sure hope Button just has a hand like 99 that he decided might be good after all when he was checked to on the turn.

[Bodhi]

A very good and disciplined fold on the turn. I don't mind your preflop cap with position, either.

Am I reading this right...are you closing the action on the turn? If so, I think you have plenty of outs to call this bet. There's almost 20 BB in the pot when it comes to you. Even 3 outs for the straight should do it, never mind the overs.

[ErrantNight]

when you pick up outs on the turn and are getting 1:10 on your money with perhaps as many as ten outs (although four may be two a split).... i don't think you can fold.

[ErrantNight]

and don't include the river card if your question is on the turn

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I reading this right...are you closing the action on the turn? If so, I think you have plenty of outs to call this bet. There's almost 20 BB in the pot when it comes to you. Even 3 outs for the straight should do it, never mind the overs.

[/ QUOTE ]

button still acts behind me, and yes he did raise

[ErrantNight]

button may indeed raise this behind you... but button's all-in reads like steaming... and i sincerely doubt this is capped. like, ever.

[molawn2mo]

preflop is standard
flop is good
turn... the shortstack play has to be seriously discounted. plenty of outs on the river to continue even though they are tainted (lots of river card can chop).

I think calling preflop is better than capping,
flop is good,
call turn.

[davet]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would that accomplish?
i dont think anyones folding a better hand here and i would love a free card

[davet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would that accomplish?
i dont think anyones folding a better hand here and i would love a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. You are looking at (4) 4's (3) A's (3)K's. Ten outs is a good time to bet out. Also, by not betting out, you set yourself up to face two cold. If you have callers behind you, when the raise gets back you you, have better odds to call a single bet.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would that accomplish?
i dont think anyones folding a better hand here and i would love a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. You are looking at (4) 4's (3) A's (3)K's. Ten outs is a good time to bet out. Also, by not betting out, you set yourself up to face two cold. If you have callers behind you, when the raise gets back you you, have better odds to call a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good reason to bet.

If you're drawing and end up paying two bets to see the river, you didn't get a better deal on those two bets just because you made one of them yourself.

Edit: Also, I think we need to discount our 10 outs too much to be thinking of a turn bet in terms of value.

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would that accomplish?
i dont think anyones folding a better hand here and i would love a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. You are looking at (4) 4's (3) A's (3)K's. Ten outs is a good time to bet out. Also, by not betting out, you set yourself up to face two cold. If you have callers behind you, when the raise gets back you you, have better odds to call a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many of your outs are clean? and the button dosent have to bet, id rather see the river for 0 bets than 2+bb, theres no way i have the best hand and i dont think i have an equity edge here

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that advocates leading the turn here?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would that accomplish?
i dont think anyones folding a better hand here and i would love a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. You are looking at (4) 4's (3) A's (3)K's. Ten outs is a good time to bet out. Also, by not betting out, you set yourself up to face two cold. If you have callers behind you, when the raise gets back you you, have better odds to call a single bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

how many of your outs are clean? and the button dosent have to bet, id rather see the river for 0 bets than 2+bb, theres no way i have the best hand and i dont think i have an equity edge here

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have played it the same as Hero. There is no way your outs a clean. I think someone's drawing to the nuts flush. This alone chops your three remaining 4's to 1.5 and you're minus an A. I would wonder whether even a A or a K would be good. Even if you do think the outs are there, there's still the button to follow. He seriously scares me. He's cold called 6 bets, then leads out.nh.

[ep510]

[ QUOTE ]
I think someone's drawing to the nuts flush. This alone chops your three remaining 4's to 1.5 and you're minus an A. I would wonder whether even a A or a K would be good. Even if you do think the outs are there, there's still the button to follow. He seriously scares me. He's cold called 6 bets, then leads out.nh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has the Ah, so the nut flush is not out there. MP3 seems like he was the most likely to have the flush draw since he raised flop and checked turn, but would MP3 3-bet pf with say Khxh or Qhxh? It's less likely. Since button is LAG, would he cap flop with a flush draw? Seems within the realm of likelihood, so it may appear that button might not have a FD either. BB could, but he's shortstacked, so I wouldn't make a FD more likely than anything else.

Therefore, I wouldn't discount outs excessively with regard to a flush draw. Even if you discount your outs to A(1.5), K(1.5), 4(~3) = 6 outs -&gt; giving you 7:1 odds. You're getting about 10:1 with button acting behind you. Since he's LAG, he could likely have bet when checked to. I think you have to call here given the size of the pot.