Playing B&M poker like a scared little girl.

[FlashFunk]

I've been playing online for about a year and a half. Starting at the 25NL tables I've slowly worked my bankroll up to playing/winning at 200NL (6max).

This weekend I went to play for the first time in a live casino. The only NL game they spread is a 200NL with $3/5 blinds. Obviously the blinds are really high compared to the buyin and going into this had me a little on edge.

I lasted about 1.5 hours before busting out. The only thing going through my head was, if I raise preflop 4bb my continuation bet on the flop will almost pot commit me. This of course made me play scared and incorrect poker. It felt pretty obvious that most players could tell I wasn’t playing anything but premium hands.

Another reason for my girlishness was I only planned on spending 1 buyin. Online I can drop $200-400 without even batting an eye, but in live poker seeing $200 leave my wallet was a little more intimidating. I was also probably the youngest guy at the table (23).

Here’s the only ideas I could come up with:
-Come with at least 2-3 buyins that I’m ready to lose
-Play some 3/6 limit to just get used to being in a casino (this might not be a great idea as my limit experience is almost non-existent).
-Stop by the bar and have a couple beers before playing (I know this might sound ridiculous to some, but in my home game I’ve found I play much better poker after having a couple in me)

Any advice from you B&M regulars?

Is this something that only comes after putting in the hours?

[Masquerade]

You've already diagnosed the problem. Play with at least 5 more buyins in your pocket. You're playing to win, of course, but you shouldnt feel inhibited about losing your buy-in if the situation warrants the risk. That may mean dropping down a level but it will stop you playing scared.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]

Here’s the only ideas I could come up with:
-Come with at least 2-3 buyins that I’m ready to lose
-Play some 3/6 limit to just get used to being in a casino (this might not be a great idea as my limit experience is almost non-existent).
-Stop by the bar and have a couple beers before playing (I know this might sound ridiculous to some, but in my home game I’ve found I play much better poker after having a couple in me)


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you need to bring more than 1 buy in. I'd want $1K but could get by with less.

If the environment is intimidating you, sure play some limit. You shouldn't be intimidated though, you will be one of the best players at the table if you don't play scared.

I drink constantly when I play NL in Vegas but I don't do it to increase my earn rate. I do it because I'm there to have fun.

You need to relax and have some damn confidence in your play. What are you nervous about? Do you think the other players are going to laugh at how you play? The dealer? We've already established your comfort level with the variance so what are you scared of?

[jkamowitz]

Hey, I only started playing in casino's (primarily Foxwoods in CT) a year ago but I remember how intimidating it is to walk in that first time. My advice is to get there earlier than you would like to start playing. Take an hour or so and just walk around the card room, getting a feel for the atmosphere and watching a table or two trying to work on your game selection.
I think a problem a lot of people have with B&M is that they spend an hour or so in a stuffy car, so that when they finally get to the casino they are just aching to play. This is the wrong attitude. I am sure that when you are playing online at home you are not worried about your bankroll and how much you will win/lose but are mostly concerned with how well you play.
This can be translated into casino play as well.
You had a good idea of moving down limits in order to get a better feel for casino play. But, if you are not a limit player I suggest trying a smaller nl game first. (the 1-2nl at foxwoods is laughable and it'll give you a sense of the competition you can expect)
I hope things work better for you the next time you try B&M.

[nsj]

[ QUOTE ]

You need to relax and have some damn confidence in your play. What are you nervous about?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Having a couple of buyins will help ease the anxiety for sure, but if you're beating 200NL online, you can certainly handle the B&M equivalent.

Play your game and pay attention to your opponents. If your focus is on the game instead of on your stack, you'll play much better.

[FlashFunk]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to relax and have some damn confidence in your play. What are you nervous about? Do you think the other players are going to laugh at how you play? The dealer? We've already established your comfort level with the variance so what are you scared of?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm scared that I might not be good at playing live poker in a casino and poker is one of my main hobbies. I have no confidence in my live game. I'm also worried that players will be able to read me so easily they'll just think here comes another one of those young internet suckers. I guess its just something I need to get over.

[niquewon]

Playing at a B&M for the first time can be intimidating but you just need to try to focus on what has made you a winning player online. If you feel uncomfortable playing NL start out playing at one of the low stakes limit tables to get used to playing live. Given the quality of play at most 3/6 games even with little experience you'll be lightyears better than most of the other players.

[4_2_it]

Just make sure you wear that hat when you play and you won't have any problems! Seriously, at the limits you are playing, don't worry about giving off tells. If you think you are a tell machine, just buy Caro's book of tells. Just make sure you are bankrolled properly, if you play scared and only bring 1-buy-in, you will end up with a lot of losing sessions.

Remember, many who are playing in a B&M are there to gambool and have a good time, not to make money.

[Mr. Curious]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing going through my head was, if I raise preflop 4bb my continuation bet on the flop will almost pot commit me.

[/ QUOTE ]

DUDE, STOP PLAYING LIKE A PUSSY.

If you are afraid that your continuation bet will pot commit you, CHANGE YOUR STARTING HAND REQUIREMENTS (unless you're playing against me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

[ QUOTE ]
I was also probably the youngest guy at the table (23).

[/ QUOTE ]

Age means nothing and once you're played live a few times, it won't matter to you either.

btw - Welcome to Tulalip /images/graemlins/smile.gif Bring more money, drink a beer or two at the table, try being friendly to the people there, check out some of the waitress who occasionaly show their boobs, and in a couple of sessions, you will be comfortable and able to play your A game.

[PennDisc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also worried that players will be able to read me so easily they'll just think here comes another one of those young internet suckers.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're a winning player on the internet for the same stakes, the live players are the ones that will be the suckers. And in a $200 NL game, don't worry about them reading you because they probably won't even be thinking about the cards you have. At the same stakes, internet games are much tougher than live games.

i think the problem here is and im sure everyone here will agree, your over analysizng, and becoming freaked out, what you need to do is just relax and play your game like that one guy said walk around the room for awhile watch people see how they do things, take a look at the B&M newbie guide that helped me for my first time going
good luck to you man

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need to relax and have some damn confidence in your play. What are you nervous about? Do you think the other players are going to laugh at how you play? The dealer? We've already established your comfort level with the variance so what are you scared of?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm scared that I might not be good at playing live poker in a casino and poker is one of my main hobbies. I have no confidence in my live game. I'm also worried that players will be able to read me so easily they'll just think here comes another one of those young internet suckers. I guess its just something I need to get over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, that's a rational fear.

As others will also tell you, most of your opponents will not be focused on you nearly enough to spot any but the most obvious tells. But, that doesn't mean you can't work on your reactions. Read up on tells and try to control your reactions, it's good practice. Honestly, it's probably not going to make much difference to your immediate results but the practice will come in handy for bigger games.

Also, the "internet suckers" you've been playing are far, far better than the players you will encounter at the B&M 200. It is important to realize this and adjust accordingly, eg no fancy plays and watch the bluffing.

More than anything else though, just relax and enjoy your hobby. Order a beer or three if you feel like it, it's just poker.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]

-Come with at least 2-3 buyins that I’m ready to los

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. Also good would be to set aside a separate bankroll for your live poker. I have a wad of benjamins in my room that I keep just for playing live, nothing else. This way it hurts a lot less when I lose a few of them; I wasn't going to spend them on anything anyways. I know what you mean about being scared to lose a couple bills from your wallet; even if you have the money elsewhere, it still hurts when you lose everything that's with you. Creating a separate roll helped me manage money and detach myself from the results just as well as I do online.


[ QUOTE ]

-Play some 3/6 limit to just get used to being in a casino (this might not be a great idea as my limit experience is almost non-existent).


[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree with this one. If NL is your game, just stick to NL.



[ QUOTE ]

-Stop by the bar and have a couple beers before playing (I know this might sound ridiculous to some, but in my home game I’ve found I play much better poker after having a couple in me)


[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds okay to me. I always get the jitters when I play live, even though I've probably put in about 50+ sessions at this point (which I know isn't that much really, but you'd think the jitters would have gone away by now). So sometimes I drink to make myself more comfortable and to have more fun. Because really, when I'm playing live, I'm there to have a good time.

[CaptainCrunch]

For what its worth, this sort of thing kept me from ever playing poker for years and years. I somehow had gotten the impression that the poker rooms in Vegas were full of these "old west" kind of serious, cigar chomping card sharps who'd skin me alive. Add in my utter ignorance of poker rules....

Well, I conquered that (several months after learning hold em, and upon my return to LA) by just going. Bolstered by tales here of exactly how BAD those "card sharps" in the B&Ms are, I dove in. Learned the live ettiquate...mostly /images/graemlins/grin.gif and haven't looked back. Now I play every weekend. I enjoy the hell out of it, and don't feel intimidated by anything except perhaps those dudes playing with the 10 racks of peppermint chips in the high limit room.... yikes!

So, take it from a fellow B&M newbie, the advice here is all spot on. Dive in, fear not the morans at the tables and gird thyself adequately with cash for your chosen game.

And have fun.

[rchandra]

[ QUOTE ]

I have a wad of benjamins in my room
<snip>

Creating a separate roll helped me manage money



[/ QUOTE ]

Only in poker can "wad of benjamins in my room" and "manage money" be used together and be correct.

[Bazuul]

one thing i immediately noticed about b&m, the "standard" raise size can shock you

at foxwooods $1/$2 nl when a player makes a standard raise preflop it is usually in the range of $10, $12, $15, or even $20 on many tables

this cuts deep with a $100 max buy-in and at the blinds you are playing with a $200 buy-in i could see it being worse

play a short-stack strategy (Ed Miller) at first until you build your stack then transition into your normal online style but bluff less and fold to a river bet less

good luck!

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
one thing i immediately noticed about b&m, the "standard" raise size can shock you

at foxwooods $1/$2 nl when a player makes a standard raise preflop it is usually in the range of $10, $12, $15, or even $20 on many tables

this cuts deep with a $100 max buy-in and at the blinds you are playing with a $200 buy-in i could see it being worse

play a short-stack strategy (Ed Miller) at first until you build your stack then transition into your normal online style but bluff less and fold to a river bet less

good luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Alltime favorite foxwoods moment #2:

Friday night, just after last call. I'm unfortunately tilting after crapping away the last of my profits from a good run at the borgata's 6/12 the week before in the 5/10 kill. Open seating on the 1/2 nl, I'm shown to a table near the geometric center of the room.. Table seems relatively soft. I'm being sweated by an intoxicated friend in the 3 seat. Most of the table is young, with the exception of the 7s and 9s LAGs. The majority of the players are opening/raising 5+BB.

The 5 seat is a young girl being sweated by her equally young brother. She'd opened for $25ish at one point, been reraised allin for either $60 or $75 more and thought for about 45 seconds before calling. The raiser had QQ, she had KQ and obviously flopped a domestic partner to the male half of her hand.

Anyways.. now, with ammunition, she continues to misplay hands preflop for a down or so before the play of plays. I limp UTG+1 in the 3s w/ 66. 4s folds to her, she makes it 30 to go. One of the players on the far side thinks before folding, and the rest of the table quickly follows suit. I flash my pair to the friend, who shakes his head at me, having already seen me lay down AQ in an unraised pot on a 4A4 flop (BB came alive on the flop and river, showing 43).

As she 'drags' the $5 from the pot, she teaches the table an important lesson regarding the play of pocket pairs. Tabling 77, she advises, "you see, I can play this hand against one player, but if I'm up against 5 or 6, it never wins."

Despite the juiciness of the game, I was in a bad mood over my play in the 5/10 game and itching to get to Newport, RI, to hang out with some friends from school. After cashing in the insignificant remainder of my once-full rack of chips, I paused near the entrance to the sportsbook, awaiting the termination of my friend's urgent urinary processes. The same girl passes by me, "Gee.. I haven't seen -you- in a while." (emphasis hers).

She proceeds to walk into the bathroom entrance as my friend exits. He's coherent enough to have heard her, but asks me to confirm the bizarre question nonetheless before rightly asking, "why?"

"Dunno. Weird man.. Just weird."

-kyo

[mgsimpleton]

i don't get it.

My suggestion is to try a tournament first. It'll get you some experience in live poker, in a B&M, but it won't be "cold hard cash" you're losing/winning - your money is already in the casino's pocket, so just play!

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

try harder. it's what we like to call an anecdote.

-kyo

[null]

I don't get it either. As an anecdote it was boring and built towards a nonexistant climax.

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it either. As an anecdote it was boring and built towards a nonexistant climax.

[/ QUOTE ]

I Replied to a message about exorbitant opens in FWNL with an example and the player's logic behind it.

If you don't like it, oh well.

-kyo

[Kyo Souma II]

And also.. Since when did anecdotes require a climax?

-kyo

[Wakko]

[ QUOTE ]
And also.. Since when did anecdotes require a climax?

-kyo

[/ QUOTE ]

They amended the Internet TOS a while back to include that

[Kyo Souma II]

Damn you, steve case.

-kyo

[BillsChips]

After driving to Foxwoods alone (3 hrs) I usually have a beer and play video poker for a few minutes to wind down from the drive. My adrenalin still peaks a bit when I go to the cage to buy chips and then take a seat. On the few times that I was dealt a monster right away, my hands were shaking really badly. After a hand or two though, you should be more relaxed.

You should definately have more than one buy-in in your pocket. That alone should make a big difference in your play. Live 1/2 NL seems to me almost like 10-30 limit.

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
After driving to Foxwoods alone (3 hrs) I usually have a beer and play video poker for a few minutes to wind down from the drive. My adrenalin still peaks a bit when I go to the cage to buy chips and then take a seat. On the few times that I was dealt a monster right away, my hands were shaking really badly. After a hand or two though, you should be more relaxed.


[/ QUOTE ]

I get this all too. Long walk to the tables.

-kyo

[ChipWrecked]

My first few live sessions were pre-WPT. I don't believe most of the old regulars in my cardroom were even aware of internet poker.

The way they drooled and paid me off because I fumbled with chips and was obviously a live poker n00b was great.