confirm pushing any 2 into the bb?

[Maulik]

i haven't been involved in very many hands yet, so my image should be in tact. the villian has made any calls yet. so i can give him credit for being a reasonable player, as of now.

***** Hand History for Game xxxxx806 *****
100/200 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 15621934) - Sat Sep 10 18:34:08 EDT 2005
Table Table 19584 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: dhende3 (2650)
Seat 3: my121 (985)
Seat 4: konturaki (1975)
Seat 6: pwestbtr (595)
Seat 7: Hero (765)
Seat 8: thethrill22 (1080)
Seat 9: Jman1122 (1255)
Seat 10: coldplay_ (695)
Hero posts small blind (50)
thethrill22 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif]
Jman1122 folds.
coldplay_ folds.
dhende3 folds.
my121 folds.
konturaki folds.
pwestbtr folds.
Hero raises ??

[schwza]

i'd probably just fold there. if you had more like 5x, i might push. for one thing, i think (?) that people really remember when you give them walks in the bb, so your next sb push will be better, and it will be at higher blinds.

[BadMongo]

Easy push if BB is reasonable.

[KramerTM]

I think this is good because you don't have great prospects for pushing either of the next two hands (next hand the BB is the short stack who will call with a wide range, and then the BB will be the huge stack who might do the same). With a medium stack in the BB, this is an insta-push unless he has shown some willingness to call with a very wide range.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd probably just fold there. if you had more like 5x, i might push. for one thing, i think (?) that people really remember when you give them walks in the bb, so your next sb push will be better, and it will be at higher blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Next SB push? Good luck getting to that point. You're left with just over 3 BBs, bad prospects to push for the next couple of hands, and blinds moving up before the button gets back to you. You need to push here, else you lose all FE you might still have.

[raptor517]

this is a FOLD. FOLD. the blinds are 50-100, not 100-200. dont shove any 2 here. its no longer correct, as people have greatly decreased their calling requirements. holla

[durron597]

thethrill22 is 2+2, so I would push /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
thethrill22 is 2+2, so I would push /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

if he knows yer 2+2 then hes calling a lot more hands too.. keep that in mind. holla

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thethrill22 is 2+2, so I would push /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

if he knows yer 2+2 then hes calling a lot more hands too.. keep that in mind. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

psh, only if he's a good 2+2er.

me, i spite call tons.

citanul

[BadMongo]

This is a +0.3% push even if he's calling with 22+, A2+, KTs+, KJo+, QJs. With the information given in the OP about the BB and hero's table image, this is a push. It's still 8 handed, and you've gotta take these oppertunities when they present themselves.

If the BB is pretty tight it's a push according to SNG Powertools, if I entered everything correctly. Just when I thought I was starting to learn, pushing with 8BB and 72o is +ev. /images/graemlins/mad.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Chaostracize]

I fold here.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
It's still 8 handed, and you've gotta take these oppertunities when they present themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

no you dont. not for .3% holla

[ QUOTE ]
i think (?) that people really remember when you give them walks in the bb, so your next sb push will be better, and it will be at higher blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, since this push is only very slightly +EV, and you have 7xBB left.

[BadMongo]

Do you really think he's calling with that range? I was just using it as a worst case scenario. In reality, I don't see a "reasonable" player calling off most of his chips with 22 or A3. If you use a slightly saner range of 44+, A7s+, A9o+, KJs+ the push is +0.7%. This is not an insignificant amount, and it's not close enough to zero for a pass to be correct.

Edit: this is really just a question of estimating the BB's calling range. What would you say approximates a reasonable 55er's calling range in this situation?

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a FOLD. FOLD. the blinds are 50-100, not 100-200. dont shove any 2 here. its no longer correct, as people have greatly decreased their calling requirements. holla

[/ QUOTE ]


??????? wtf, I must be doing something totally wrong then. If BB and I both have ~10BB each, I auto-push. That old article with blind stealing covered this. If he's a 2+2er, I push even faster. Why is this wrong? Pray tell mr. raptoreus.

[Freudian]

This is somewhere in the twilight zone between push and fold for me. Add 100 chips to heros stack and I fold. Subract 100 chips from heros stack and I push.

I probably fold this. No real need to panic with a stack of 700.

[ilya]

I would fold here cos I think BBs are often quite loose against "obvious steal" SB pushes *when there are this many players left.* Anyhooo it's good to pass on some push spots in the SB so why not do it with the worst hands.

[Degen]

i don't like it

risking too much for far too little

if the blinds were at the next level then maybe, but still, i'd want to have some suckout value at least....like 79s or K4s, this is a poor play IMO

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is a FOLD. FOLD. the blinds are 50-100, not 100-200. dont shove any 2 here. its no longer correct, as people have greatly decreased their calling requirements. holla

[/ QUOTE ]


??????? wtf, I must be doing something totally wrong then. If BB and I both have ~10BB each, I auto-push. That old article with blind stealing covered this. If he's a 2+2er, I push even faster. Why is this wrong? Pray tell mr. raptoreus.

[/ QUOTE ]

heres the thing. that article that everyone refers to, was mjs right? the theorem of blind stealing. it refers to situations ON THE BUBBLE with a small stack out there. people have been misinterpreting this for almost 2 years. holla

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a FOLD. FOLD. the blinds are 50-100, not 100-200. dont shove any 2 here. its no longer correct, as people have greatly decreased their calling requirements. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

[BadMongo]

No one else has put the BB on a specific calling range yet. I don't see how you can say pushing is a bad play without doing this. So, what do you think a reasonable 55er calls with here?

[microbet]

Not mandatory, but quite reasonable to push here unless you have noted him as a caller or you have pushed a ton already.

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
Not mandatory, but quite reasonable to push here unless you have noted him as a caller or you have pushed a ton already.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this is correct. I normally fold here, but if you think that he thinks you aren't pushing a lot of hands, and he's not insane, you can definitely make this push.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
It's still 8 handed

[/ QUOTE ]

All the more reason to fold and wait for a better hand.

(You'll get 6 "free" hands for every 2 blind hands.)