UTG pushing standards

[zac777]

Here's a scenario where I've been trying to fine tune my standards, and I have a feeling that they're different from most folks'.

You're in the 75/150 level with 900 chips (assume 1000 starting stacks). 7 players left. Your opponents are typical, whatever that means to you. Also assume that no one has a huge stack (losing to you would be painful for any of the other players) I know it's pretty tough to generalize something like this, but humor me..

If none of these choices match what you'd do, just vote for whatever's closest.

[unreal_nh]

how many people are left?

[zac777]

Oops, that's pretty important. I edited it.

[pergesu]

This depends entirely on the number of players. My standards with 4 players left are completely different from when there are 8 players left.

[chipolino]

Is this a push from the SB?

[zac777]

It's a push from UTG. I put it in the title, but not the description

[emptypockets]

I guess I´m a tightass, but I prefer to have AQo to push UTG at this level. 225 just isn´t enough risk/reward for me to push w dominated hands having 900 left UTG.

[Shillx]

ATo is as low as I'd go. You would need AJo if you flipped your hand face up. If you are pushing A9o here, you are pretty much pushing any 2 since you are banking on everyone to fold very often.

[zac777]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are pushing A9o here, you are pretty much pushing any 2 since you are banking on everyone to fold very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you're banking on people folding, but the quality of your hand definitely matters, even if it's less than A9o. The fact that you're UTG should get you some respect, so there must be a gap between the hand you can do this with face-up and the hand you can do it with face-down.

Finding that hand based on calling ranges and ICM is the first part of the problem. I think this is a case where ICM isn't a perfect model, but it's definitely a good start.

[zac777]

Wow, those results are all over the place.. I wish there was a way I could see the votes in pairs.

Anyone who voted AQ care to post the logic behind that choice? I guess I should have put a couple more categories between AQ and KJ.

I'm also curious to hear from those in the "any two" camp. I'm assuming they're also the ones voting TT+

Also, if you plugged your calling ranges and chip stacks into SNGPT in this spot and got a value of 0, would you push or fold and why?

[schwza]

there's a pretty huge gap between KJ and AQ. i think the right answer is definitely in between there, at least at party 33's.

[KramerTM]

I'm sorry, but threads like these are typically hopeless and pointless. I understand what you are trying to gain, but don't think you will accomplish it from such general threads that end up taking 22 replies before you can fully explain a scenario. If you have trouble finding actual hands where you faced a dilemma, then I would at least suggest making up sepcific hands (including position, chips stacks, and all those juicy details) before ever resorting to something as futile as this.

[zac777]

I see this scenario 2-3 times an hour. I'd have no trouble pulling out a specific instance and posting it, but it wouldn't change much. As for the juicy details, I already said you're UTG and that there are no big chip stacks - I think that should be enough to start the discussion. If it helps, assume that everyone else has ~1500 chips.

I was hoping the poll would narrow things down, but there are quite a few different opinions, so there's probably some discussion to be had. I guess I'll just throw out a few of the things I was thinking about and see if anyone thinks they are out of line.

- I doubt the lowest calling range (22+, etc) is reality at any level.

- I think that KJo is an auto-push

- I think this is a spot where letting the blinds go through you completely changes the way other people view your stack

- I push here even if ICM says it is slightly wrong

Agree? Disagree?

This situation comes up so often that I want to make sure I'm handling it correctly.