is Doyle Bruson really a cheater?

Ok, so I was in Vegas this last week and while there one of the players claimed that Doyle and Chip Reese were recently thrown out of (can't remember which casino) for collusion. When I expressed surprise, the player ridiculed me for not knowing, as 'everybody knows' that Doyle and Reese are 'well known' for cheating and have simply never been caught before. While not joining in the mockery, the dealer did confirm that he had heard the same story. Can anyone confirm this story or provide a source? Also, am I really so naive not to have already been aware of this 'well known' fact?

[augie00]

I've never seen anything like that on these boards. Sound like some loonies to me.

[Kaeser]

Doyle and Chip are two of the most successful players in the game. It's quite natural for lesser players to suspect them of cheating. It's the same thing when a player tells you that online poker is rigged. They can't stand the thought that they aren't as good as they think they are therefore the game must be rigged against them.

well yeah but this wasn't presented as a 'oh I bet those guys only win 'cause they cheat', it was presented as local breaking news that they were actually escorted out of the casino and like I said, the dealer confirmed it otherwise i'd assume it was just one drunk moron... wish I could remember which casino he mentioned. But if nobody here has heard the same story guess i'll chalk it up to just really weird that the dealer would say the same thing, that's the main reason I thought it might be legitimate.

[tonypaladino]

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I've never seen anything like that on these boards.

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Never strayed to WPT forum i guess?

[jman220]

link?

[zuluking]

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Never strayed to WPT forum i guess?

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Worst, forum, ever.

[Vee Quiva]

Were you sitting next to a guy named Russ Georgiev?

[henrikrh]

Casinos wouldn't care if Doyle cheated, him being in the casino will encourage people to play above their limits to sit in his game and the cheating doesn't affect the rake. Throwing him out would be -ev for the casino.

[BusterFlush]

I just checked out of the Belagio Yesterday and was there Thursday through Sunday. Chip Reese was playing two of three night's in "Bobby's Room". However, while playing at the 8pm Binion's Tournment Friday night, a local player asked the dealer if he heard that Mr. Reece and another player had been escorted out of the Belagio for Collusion. The dealer said he had not heard that and called the poker manager over and she said she had not heard that but that she "would not be surprised as that was a long standing rumor."
Saturday at the 2-5 NL game I asked a hotshot local player who knew every dealer in the joint about it. He said it happened and when the dealer gave him a "look" he back peddled and changed the subject.
I do not know if it is true or not. I find it hard to believe it true as I saw Reece, Harmon, Ivey, Benyamine, Elezra, Oppenheim, Giang, and some others all play at the same table over this weekend. Even Daniel stopped in to say helle and was talking to Reece. Mr. Brunson was not seen over the weekend.

[benfranklin]

Rumors like this have been going around forever. An in-depth search could probably come up with the same rumors about every big name player in the country. And threads like this are what keep them going.

Now someone will read this thread and ask about it at a table somewhere, and keep it going like perpetual motion. And someone will hear the names wrong and change it to Todd Brunson and Chip Jett, and that will start a new round. And next week a dealer at the Bellagio will confirm that he heard that rumor too.

I think we need a new forum for rumors about which pro players are:
1. cheating
2. colluding
3. leaking money at table games
4. hiding out from backers
5. doing drugs
6. gay
7. cheating on their spouse
8. ________________

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Swedebubba]

Donkey (after losing big pot) - Are you all blind. He's obviosly cheating.

Chip or Doyle - I don't need marked cards to beat you buddy.

[csuf_gambler]

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Casinos wouldn't care if Doyle cheated, him being in the casino will encourage people to play above their limits to sit in his game and the cheating doesn't affect the rake. Throwing him out would be -ev for the casino.

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wow sounds like the Matador. maybe ESPN was on to something with Tilt.

Gossip is gossip is gossip. It's a favorite past time of a lot of people in every group/gathering/association/industry known to man, on the face of the earth. Personally, I think it's the only way small minds can be entertained. I won't get into the psychology of the people who participate or the havoc it wreaks on the targets.

Having said that...

The players in the early WSOP tournaments early on decided among themselves to split the money. That's a known fact. Collusion? I guess it was. That may lend to this story.

I've always found it interesting, when you try to follow up on these stories, nobody can be found who has any facts. Nobody was actually there. It's always, "I heard," or "somebody told me," etc., etc., et-freaking-cetera.

The "top names" play each other so much, they know damned near every single betting pattern/nervous tic, etc., of everyone at the table. I'd lay 9-2 they frequently make plays that, to the casual/less knowledgeble player, appear to be collusion. But it ain't.

Not one of these guys, in my usually-not-humble-opinion, is such a mental midget that he/she would risk losing the seat they have on the gravy train they're riding right now. (OK, maybe a couple of them would)

Now, as I think Nero would have said, Let The Flames Begin.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Great post. Excellent suggestion. But, what else could come from a person whose screen name is the same as one of my earliest idols.

[theben]

total BS

[theben]

aka satan aka whiney vag

[spaminator101]

No Doyles a Christian. I don't think he would do that. I think its just spam

Thats an excellent idea. I could make some good speculations about #6. :::cough....daniel....cough:::

[Jeff V]

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Were you sitting next to a guy named Russ Georgiev?

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There's a blast from the past. LOL

[beset7]

Doyle may have cheated/colluded in the past, maybe he didn't. i don't care.

Why I DO find interesting however is how shocking people find the idea that name pros may have played dirty in earlier times. I think it shows a remarkable amount of naivety about poker and poker culture pre-rounders/wpt/moneymaker. It would be more surprising to me if they had never colluded. Cash game poker as sport is a very recent construct.

Nonetheless, Doyle is very adamant and vocal about the fundamental honesty of poker players, even that they are probably more honest on average than the average person. So much so that as I recall, he would not complete the deal with a publisher for supersystem when they required a contract, as he was only willing to do business on a 'handshake' basis, because he didn't think anyone should need more than his word of honor. So I don't know that being surprised to hear him called a cheater is all that naive.

[speirs]

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total BS

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[speirs]

YSSCKY