Okay, WTF

[lain21us]

I've been a consistent winner at Absolute Poker and Poker Room for the past 4 months at 1/2 with over 40,000 hands under my belt. This is at both 6-max and full ring. I've read a couple of great books and feel like I'm developing a pretty deep understanding of the game.

Once, a couple months ago, I threw 150 into Party and starting playing their lowest limits and I busted out real quick. I figured it was just bad luck, but quickly went back to my old sites. Recently I decided to put a few hundred bucks back into Party and try it again. I've had KK 3 times so far and every time they've been busted by an ace on the river. 3 out of the 4 times I've had AA I've had them cracked by a straight on the river. I've flopped 2 A-high flushes with a Q my hand, only to have another of the suit come on the river both times, giving my lone opponent who has the K an even higher flush. I've had countless other bad beats, and they seem to come nonstop, in both full ring and 6-max. The amazing thing is, all these bad beats seem to come on the river so that the pots get huge and the house seems to make a lot of money off the rake. I've read dozens of forum posts where people say Party is rigged, and they get shot down by a bunch of people who are apparently big winners at higher limits anyways. It seems to me this would not be as much of a problem at higher limits, since people tend not to chase their overcards to the river. Certainly the argument that Party Poker would not want to scare away their customers with bad beats is suspect, since most people at the lower limits expect to lose money anyways (since they suck), and since the extra rake would represent an enormous extra profit for Party. There would also be some added player retention with those players who tend to chase. I've tried real hard to believe all the people who say that this is wrong, but seriously, without any of the smartass answers I'm bound to get anyways, what would you think if you were in my shoes? I'm certainly open to any advice anybody can give me.

[Trump]

Play at empire?

[waffle]

Yeah, real deep understanding. Just stick to the other sites and you will make tons of money.

By the way, party raised the rake rates for 6max games at the beginning of this month. Why didn't they just raise the bad-beat-o-thon-2000?

[BigF]

Here's a piece of advice for ya: FUUUUUUCK YOU!!!!

[stu-unger]

party poker is rigged!

seriously man ive been more successful at other sites also, but the idea that the largest internet poker site in the world is rigged to make a larger rake perctage is a little silly. what is your sample size? i still whore party out and in no way believe it is rigged, more W-horable people=+EV and more bad beats...

[lain21us]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a piece of advice for ya: FUUUUUUCK YOU!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys don't have to be assholes about this. I'm willing to learn, but I'm hoping somebody will have something constructive to offer, instead of just cussing me out.

[pokerrookie]

More bad players (Party) means more bad beats (Party). Also, it means more profit for you (long run), as long as you play solid poker. But admittedly, it does suck in the short run. Of course, if you have less confidence when playing at Party, don't do it. Just because some have success there does not mean you will. Play where you are comfortable and have a proven track record. I find myself getting in trouble when chasing bonuses, and going away from my "home" sites.

[pokerrookie]

[ QUOTE ]
party poker is rigged!

seriously man ive been more successful at other sites also, but the idea that the largest internet poker site in the world is rigged to make a larger rake perctage is a little silly. what is your sample size? i still whore party out and in no way believe it is rigged, more W-horable people=+EV and more bad beats...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Stu, good point. What's your sample size to show that it isn't rigged? It is within the realm of possibility. Not likely, but possible. I always consider the "Party is Rigged" camp to be in the same paranoid (and ignorant, perhaps) group that claim Bush stole the election in 2000.

[stu-unger]

my sample size on party is only like 90,000 so i cant say its not rigged. i just dont see a company making 640 mil. last year and growing at an extensive rate to be shaving rake.

[Synergistic Explosions]

Sounds to me that for some reason the Party DOOM SWITCH is stuck for you. Have you tried logging in and out about 50 times very quickly? That's the only way sometimes I can get the DOOM SWITCH to reset.

[lain21us]

[ QUOTE ]
party poker is rigged!

seriously man ive been more successful at other sites also, but the idea that the largest internet poker site in the world is rigged to make a larger rake perctage is a little silly. what is your sample size? i still whore party out and in no way believe it is rigged, more W-horable people=+EV and more bad beats...

[/ QUOTE ]

My sample size at Party is only about 2,500. I'm less aggravated about my losses than I am about the ways I've been losing. Occasionally on other sites I'll get my aces cracked by the guy who cold-called my raise with his 67o and caught a straight, and I'll say, "nh" or something like that, to try to keep a positive attitude about it. I'm able to do this because I'm confident that if I just play long enough I'll make it all back and more, and I do. However, on Party I've almost come to expect the bad beats. Since I posted this, I've had pocket tens twice and seen the flop heads up. Both times an ace came on the flop with two rags, giving my opponent a pair of aces. Not so unusual by itself, but this is piled on to dozens of other bad beats I've had all day. Is this kind of stuff normal, and have I just been lucky enough on other sites not to have run into it so much?

[stu-unger]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me that for some reason the Party DOOM SWITCH is stuck for you. Have you tried logging in and out about 50 times very quickly? That's the only way to get the DOOM SWITCH to reset.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH

as to the op. 2500 hands is such a small sample size. if i were u i'd take a day off and come back to the tables. party is a fish tank and u r seeing that. on absolute, ub, etc. people dont call down with A high every hand and so they dont suck out as much, and u dont win as much. i for some reason do better against competent opponents but the fish tank called party is not out to get u.

[lain21us]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me that for some reason the Party DOOM SWITCH is stuck for you. Have you tried logging in and out about 50 times very quickly? That's the only way to get the DOOM SWITCH to reset.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH

as to the op. 2500 hands is such a small sample size. if i were u i'd take a day off and come back to the tables. party is a fish tank and u r seeing that. on absolute, ub, etc. people dont call down with A high every hand and so they dont suck out as much, and u dont win as much. i for some reason do better against competent opponents but the fish tank called party is not out to get u.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any idea at what limit on Party the players tend to stop chasing as much?

[lain21us]

Is there anyone on Party who had a similar experience and was able to fix the problem by moving up to a higher limit?

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there anyone on Party who had a similar experience and was able to fix the problem by moving up to a higher limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea at what limit on Party the players tend to stop chasing as much?


[/ QUOTE ]


no offense, but you dont know [censored] about poker.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is there anyone on Party who had a similar experience and was able to fix the problem by moving up to a higher limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have any idea at what limit on Party the players tend to stop chasing as much?


[/ QUOTE ]


no offense, but you dont know [censored] about poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to agree with this. Try and get this sentence through your head: Everyone time a player chases a hand incorrectly, you make money. Simple as that. If you move up to higher limits, your pocket aces and kings will be the only things you'll win with, and you'll be winning tiny pots. [Note: Exaggeration present - point trying to be made.]

- thing85 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]

My sample size at Party is only about 2,500

[/ QUOTE ]

i.e. 1 day of playing?

[DavidC]

You have a long ways to go before you can claim to have a deep understanding of the game.

That's alright though, most of us do.

In the meantime, play more hands.

[BruinEric]

The style of play at the same limits is not similar between Absolute and Party Poker, period. Adjustments will be necessary.

If it makes you feel better, I've not won my last three pocket KKs at another site -- twice having flopped a SET OF K's.

If it makes you feel better -- I'm a winner at all sites (sometimes in limited play) -- but a loser over around 5k hands at Absolute. (not counting bonii and r***back, which have me positive).

[steaknshake925]

hey, you are ignorant and suck at poker, but we all did at one point. if u study this site and put in the effort to learn the game, u'll become a winner and look back at this post and have a good laugh at yourself. good luck

I flopped a boat last night and still lost.
Beat that /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[shant]

BURN THEIR HEADQUARTERS TO THE FCUKIN GROUND

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me this would not be as much of a problem at higher limits, since people tend not to chase their overcards to the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


that's pretty funny.
(all you have to do is just OPEN a higher limit table and see)

OMFG!! I just cracked the Party Poker conspiracy!!

Abundant players who chase flush and straight draws at any cost; any ace or king plays, regardless of pre-flop raises, and calls your made hand down to the river...

It's CRYSTAL clear that PP HAS rigged their low-limit games... by inducing IDIOTS to play in them!!

Wow. That's a load off my mind.

[cracker9521]

Over my last 3k hands AA KK JJ TT 99 AKs and AK are all negative. Am I frustrated hell yes. Do I believe party has doom switched me of course not. I just filter for my last 100k and it makes me feel better

[TimsterToo]

Let me begin with stating that I'm an ignorant still learning very much beginning player. Save you all the trouble /images/graemlins/grin.gif (and I'm foreign too!)

I think Absolute is a great site to learn tight play as there are so many rocks there you really have to make sure that you don't make any unnecessary bets. What I learned from Absolute is to apply pot odds etc far more rigid then on Party. I've become a lot better at calculating outs (especially hidden ones and taking implied odds etc in account) and are much better able to throw an ok hand away if it's HU and the odds are not there. (think overcard situations with backdoor flush and straight possibilities)Also to be profitable, once you flop a hand or a good draw you have to bet for value and maximise. If you don't do these things at Absolute you'll be punished and will not be a winning player.

I can understand that if you're a winning Absolute player you have a bad time at Party. I certainly don't have a good graps on the deeper levels of this game yet but I do feel that you have to make certain adjustments on Party.

Please remember that I mean subtle adjustments, don't overdo it! I play 1/2 limit.

For one you can cold call a bit more, especially if you have a read on this player. On Party you're better of remembering which player DO make good raises etc, tighten up with them.

Let yourself be pushed out of hands a little less easy then with Absolute, people will chase with bottom pair or gutshot straight draw and will bet every round.

Don't be afraid to raise/cap the bet when you have a good hand and/or draw and the pot is multiway. You can be sure that most of them have a lesser hand and are just chasing.

Keep good tabs on how often you make a call/raise etc that you're not sure of and compare it to the payout. You can loosen or tighten up a bit more once compared to your figures. This will help you get a feeling of structure instead of just throwing money at them and feel bad about it.

Ed Millers advice is very very important!:

NEVER LAY DOWN A HAND ON THE RIVER IF IT ONLY COSTS YOU ONE BET TO SEE AND THE POT IS BIG!!

Variance is higher at Party! Especially if you play well!! If you play ass tight the difference will be a lot smaller but if you consistantly (correctly) raise for value you'll go up and down a bit more due to the higher amount of callers (and thus suckouts). This will in the end result in more money in your pocket.

I started at Party and have played Absolute the last month, I went back to clear the Sept bonus and lost 110$ to clear 100$ I was a bit p*ssed of, especially as I could see that I was playing better then the majority of the players. So I know where your coming from!

Concerning my advice, I would like to invite anyone to shoot holes in it so we can all learn. Please do argument it though otherwise it's pointless. Any extra advice is more then welcome too!

[TemetNosce]

[ QUOTE ]
BURN THEIR HEADQUARTERS TO THE FCUKIN GROUND

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be the optimal solution for the OP at this point.

[Uglyowl]

Try this experiment...

1. Take two aces out of the deck and lay them down in front of you.

2. Shuffle up and deal 9 different other hands face up.

3. Deal the 5 community cards.

4. See how many times other weird hands beat you

You will not win most the time. This is what happens when people stay with anything.

[jman220]

To play at party, you need a pattern mapper, without one, don't complain to us about your bad beats when you should have known they were coming, you won't get much sympathy. You can do a search, or you can request a pattern mapper from the friendly people in the HUSH form http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=headsup.

Good luck to you.