QQ-hand.

[kongo_totte]

Villian is 14/2.5 after 350 hands and well above average in post-flop aggression.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 ($426.36)
MP1 ($150.90)
Hero ($99.75)
MP3 ($35.17)
CO ($81)
Button ($102)
SB ($110.55)
BB ($100)
UTG ($121.85)
UTG+1 ($205.57)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $3.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($9) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($9) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10.

River: ($29) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10.

Final Pot: $49

Standard?

P.S. The river call is very marginally +EV, if +EV at all IMO.

[Larimani]

Why not bet the flop here?

EDIT: nvm. I see why.

[wtfsvi]

Yes, standard. I wouldn't like calling the river, but it's probably correct.

[jt1]

Pergesu posted a similar hand in the one table tournaments forum. He also checed the flop and called a smallish turn bet. He got a free showdown, though

Do you think that by not betting the flop you are going to see a showdown cheaper? How do you play this hand differently without the flush draw?

I ask, because, I would have pot bet the flop and probably bet the same amount on the turn and took the showdown if given.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not bet the flop here?

[/ QUOTE ]

A ton of reasons:
1) If I am check-raised, I either:
a) have to fold w/ what is likely to be a good draw
b) have to call w/ no idea if I am drawing dead or not.

2)
This is not a hand I want to invest alot in. By checking I am delaying the betting 1 street and hence keeping the pot small.

3) I am not likely to have to protect my hand.

4) Since he is quite aggressive, he will certainly bet the turn w/ any 2 since I showed weakness on the flop.

There are probably some reasons I have left out.

Basically one can put it like this, why should I bet the flop?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, standard. I wouldn't like calling the river, but it's probably correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I was not jumping up and down of joy as I called.

[Larimani]

I tend to continuation bet quasi-automatically... I think it's one of my biggest leak. Thanks for posting this hand. Opens my eyes.

[jt1]

What's the advantage to checking the flop? I'm thinking that it must be because this is a way ahead, way behind situation and betting the flop would scare the former away. That sort of makes sense, but there are a number of draws there. You are hoping to get a smallish semi-bluff from them?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the advantage to checking the flop? I'm thinking that it must be because this is a way ahead, way behind situation and betting the flop would scare the former away. That sort of makes sense, but there are a number of draws there. You are hoping to get a smallish semi-bluff from them?

[/ QUOTE ]

See my previous post. Also, if anyone is drawing, it is likely to be me.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not bet the flop here?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



A ton of reasons:
1) If I am check-raised, I either:
a) have to fold w/ what is likely to be a good draw
b) have to call w/ no idea if I am drawing dead or not.

2)
This is not a hand I want to invest alot in. By checking I am delaying the betting 1 street and hence keeping the pot small.

3) I am not likely to have to protect my hand.

4) Since he is quite aggressive, he will certainly bet the turn w/ any 2 since I showed weakness on the flop.

There are probably some reasons I have left out.

Basically one can put it like this, why should I bet the flop?



[/ QUOTE ]

I'm bookmarking this. Thanks!

[Larimani]

You seem to be a very good player. Why do you play these low limits?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to be a very good player. Why do you play these low limits?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. I like to move up slowly. I played 100k hands at the 50s, so now I only have 85k hands left at the 100s /images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

[JaBlue]

I'm betting the flop.

What does his river bet mean? Has he done it before? I probably call out of curiosity, but the question is really just how often he's pure bluffing. If that exceeds 25%, then call. If not, fold.

[wtfsvi]

Yeah, stay away from the NL$200. We don't want you there /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

EDIT: Doesn't matter much, sinse you play full ring. You planning on converting?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm betting the flop.



[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]


Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

What were you going to do if he bet after you check, and how does this define his hand any better than if you just led out?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

What were you going to do if he bet after you check, and how does this define his hand any better than if you just led out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have position. Also, there are more important things in this situation than defining his hand. Let's say I bet, he calls and checks the turn. I am as clueless of his holding as I was on the flop, and I have just made the pot bigger w/ a marginal and very tricky to play holding.

EDIT: or even if I bet, and he raises, how does that define his hand?

[JaBlue]

Sorry, Kongo, didn't realize you had position.

I'm still betting here though. I think betting out defines his hand pretty well. If he check-raises, I believe you can safely fold. If he calls, I'm also betting the turn. If he calls that, then I'm going to check behind on a non-spade river.

I wonder what you should do if the river is the 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and he checks to you. Did you think about that at all?

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, Kongo, didn't realize you had position.

I'm still betting here though. I think betting out defines his hand pretty well. If he check-raises, I believe you can safely fold. If he calls, I'm also betting the turn. If he calls that, then I'm going to check behind on a non-spade river.

I wonder what you should do if the river is the 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and he checks to you. Did you think about that at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think let's say a check-min.raise on the flop from his part puts me to a very easy decision. Basically, I'd like to avoid that situation, something that is done by not betting the flop. Check my previous post in this thread for various postivie aspects of checking this flop.

[elus2]

why would villain bet 1/3 pot on the river? i would have to guess that he has a hand like AK here a lot of the time. it seems an odd way for him to play a smaller pair like TT and he would be betting a little more with a boat i'd imagine.

[kongo_totte]

As I said, the river call is about 0 EV IMO, but since he was quite aggressive post-flop, I think there is a decent chance he either is bluffing, or much more likely, blocking w/ say a mid PP.

[elus2]

[ QUOTE ]
quite aggressive post-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't that correlated with the fact that he is super tight and usually has a hand good enough to continue with on multiple streets postflop. how much were you willing to call on the river? btw, i'd play it like you did on all the other streets and i am still undecided on the river but i guess it doesn't really matter since the pot is relatively large compared to the bet.

[kongo_totte]

[ QUOTE ]
how much were you willing to call on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

$10.00